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Please what is a DOM - iggerant Scot wants/need to know ?
(Paraphrasing Mor Ephrem -sorry )

Let the education continue

My dear Angela:

Please immediately repair to your "My Profile" for Lesson No. 1 on "DOM" ...

While I duck for cover!


AmdG

<blushing furiously>
Angela

Dear OrthodoxyorDeath,

Sorry for getting back to you so late, I'm on vacation!

Actually, I'm not an intellectual - you must have me confused with Stuart or Brendan.

I appreciate your consternation over this matter, to be sure.

But could you, when you have time, comment on how Greek pagan mythology continues to have a role in Greek cultural life?

Also, I've noticed Greeks wearing coins with Alexander the Great on them - a practice I like!

What is the cultural significance of that?

Alex

Dear Dan,

If the Archbishop of Canterbury has taken to worshipping pagan gods, I too would have a problem with that, by Jove!

But you are a teacher, are you not?

I had a teacher of comparative religions who lined up pictures of all the Hindu gods up at the front as well as others.

Did that make that priest a pagan as well?

Or if there are societies that study pre-Christian civilizations, what of that?

A Ukranian Orthodox Metropolitan wrote a great volume on pre-Christian beliefs so that all Christians could study them and how they persist in our Christian culture today.

I'm not suggesting anything further than that.

I do think it is uncharitable to attack the Archbishop simply on the incomplete information we have.

Alex

Where was this teacher during class? At the bottom of the pile? I ask because I've read that in Hinduism there are something like 3000 or so deities. Lining up pictures would be impossible in the average classroom...however, a pile is very possible.

Dear Catholicos,

I think he presented us with a Reader's Digest version.

By the way, what is the thread that Hindus wear on their wrists?

And I understand that Indian Christians, in a number of instances, have adopted this tradition as a Christianized rite?

You go, Catholicos, you go!

Alex

Dear Alex,

I'm not sure I've ever heard of a thread Hindus wear on their wrists, much less this having been taken up by Christians. Entirely possible, but I've never heard of it. I'll see if I can find out...you check with the Hindus on your end.

Dear Catholicos,

O.K.!

While we're at it, I've seen a Hinduized Latin Rite Mass where the people are in the lotus position.

There is a ring of flowers in front of the priest who also has a hand bell.

Could you shed any light on these?

Alex

Alex,

I hope your vacation was a good one.

The influence of pagan mythology in modern Greek cultural life has been certainly growing in these past years. It's called pride. And it is the result of the same kind of listlessness as the Dr.; I don't know if you've been to Greece recently but but there are many aspects and geographic areas of Greek "cultural life" that are as debauched as here in the West.


I'm sure my above commnets would apply here as well but there is also another angle that not many non-Greeks are aware of.

Many Greek Orthodox consider Alexandre the Great as a cultural forerunner of Christianity. Since he established the Greek culture over much of the known world, it was a catalyst for the spread of Christianity.

An example is the language. He helped make the Greek language the universal language of the time, much like English is today. And since people could speak to echother with a certain ease, Christianity spread faster.

In addition, Greek history books treat him as a psuedo-holy man, and an instrument of God, contrary to Western history books. Not many pagan Greeks get this kind of treatment so there might be some truth to it. I of course think it is mostly pride.

And now, another glimpse into the mind of the Orthodox faith:

Excerpt from letter CCXL of St Basil to the presbyters of Nicopolis whose church(es) became occupied by heretics or schismatics...

But if you are grieved because one whom I need not name occupies the house of prayer, and you worship the Lord of heaven and earth in the open air, remember that the eleven disciples were shut up in the upper chamber, when they that had crucified the Lord were worshipping in the Jews' far-famed temple. Peradventure, Judas, who preferred death by hanging to life in disgrace, proved himself a better man than those who now meet universal condemnation without a blush.

Only do not be deceived by their lies when they claim to be of the right faith. They are not Christians, but traffickers in Christ, always preferring their profit in this life to living in accordance with the truth. When they thought that they should get this empty dignity, they joined the enemies of Christ: now that they have seen the indignation of the people, they are once
more for pretending orthodoxy. I do not recognise as bishop-I would not count among Christ's clergy -a man who has been promoted to a chief post by polluted hands, to the destruction of the faith. This is my decision. If you have any part with me, you will doubtless think as I do. If you take counsel on your own responsibility, every man is master of his own mind, and I am innocent of this blood. I have written thus, not because I distrust you, but that by declaring my own mind I may strengthen some men's hesitation, and
prevent any out from being prematurely received into communion, or after receiving the laying on of hands of our enemies, when peace is made, later on, trying to force me to enroll them in the ranks of the sacred ministry.

Through you I salute the clergy of the city and diocese, and all the laity who fear the Lord.

[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: OrthodoxyOrDeath ]

Dear OrthodoxyorDeath,

Well, when it comes to Alexander the Great, just hold on there, Big Guy!

I agree with your assessment of his role, as there is no other valid assessment that can be made .

Seriously though, the figure of Alexander the Great has sometimes been iconographically depicted along with Socrates etc. as "good pagans" whose achievements/philosophy have "paved the way" for Christianity in the non-Jewish world.

There are the famous rotunda Rumanian Orthodox Churches that depict the Greek philosophers on the final rung, but without, of course, haloes.

The modern Greek icon of St Sisoes the Great, of course, incorporates the depiction of the tomb of Alexander the Great and his skeleton.

There are over 150 saints with the name "Alexander" in the calendar, his name and heritage were cherished everywhere, as you know.

Even Judaism approved of the name "Alexander" to be given to Jewish children after Alexander exempted the Temple of Jerusalem from the tradition he established of placing his statue at the centre of every city he conquered.

Alexander was truly a great internationalist within the context of his times.

I love the Star of Vergina and have it with me always - to me it is a great symbol of the Cross that Alexander's achievements foretold.

Paying tribute, although not in a religious way as one would do to saints, to such a man is something that we are entitled to do, just as we do with Socrates, Aristotle and the other pillars of not only Greek civilization, but Western European civilization as a whole.

And, yes, I too have been fascinated with the way in which the image of Alexander has been depicted even in Western Churches, especially the image of him being taken to heaven in a chariot.

There are Ethiopian iconic depictions of that scene.

One Ethiopian wrote to me to say there was an "Iskander" or Alexander who was not a pagan, but a believer in the one God and a prophet whom they honour as "Nabi Iskander." I know nothing further about this.

There is a Muslim Mosque near Alexandria dedicated to "Nabi Iskander" with a white embalmed body in the basement.

Although no one has investigated it, I think that just might be the corpse of Alexander the Great.

Alex

Dear Alex,

The flowers and the bell are all parts of Hindu worship that have been taken up by this inculturated rite. I presume the flowers are offerings, although I don't know what exactly the bells are for...but I like bells, so it's all good.

Dear Catholicos,

So it rings fine with you does it?

Do the Indian Orthodox wash their hands prior to prayer, take off shoes or don any particular garment?

Share the wealth, Big Guy!

Alex

Alex,

All of that is fine but we should be very gaurded in how we look upon these men.

And also, not all things that end up behind an iconographers brush are "from God". I have seen some pretty strange dipictions in my short pitiful time: Have you ever seen the icons fo the Holy Tritity (and I don't mean the angels).

Ultimatley, this still does not play into the hand of Dr. Williams because these pagan Greek men are only honored in-so-much as they helped Christianity. I don't believe the order the Doctor has united himself to has anything to do with Christianity except help destroy it.

Dear OOD,

That could very well be and ultimately I don't know.

As long as Alexander the Great has his rightful place, who cares what the Anglicans are up to?

Alex