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http://www.risu.org.ua/eng/news/article;5853/

Russian Orthodox Tells Vatican Ecumenist of Concern over Greek Catholics in Ukraine
24.06.2005, [17:26] // Foreign relations //

Moscow -- The Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) is concerned over what it called �the expansion of Catholics in Ukraine.� Metropolitan Kirill (Gundyaev) of Smolensk and Kalinigrad, chairman of the Department for External Church Relations of the Russian Orthodox Church, stated this during a meeting with the Roman Catholic Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, in Russia�s capital, Moscow, on 22 June 2005.

According to an official statement of the ROC, �the Orthodox side pointed out that from the canonical, ecclesiastic and pastoral point of view, it is unacceptable to mention Kyiv in the title of the head of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and transfer his residence to this city.�

�The realization of this intention by the Ukrainian Greek Catholics can pose a serious obstacle for the development of Orthodox-Catholic relations, which is desired by the hierarchs of the two churches as well as by their faithful and people in Europe and throughout the world in general,� said Metropolitan Kirill.

RISU posted an earlier story from 22 June in which Cardinal Kasper was quoted as saying that he did not plan to talk about the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church at the 22 June meeting: "It's not my task to speak about another church, they must do it themselves; so it's not the point of my negotiations.�

So who didn't see this one coming?

"That all may be one." They seem to interpret that to mean that all should be under the Russian Orthodox Church.

Russia has interferred in Ukraine's destiny for generations. NO MORE!

And what have the Catholics said about Orthodox expansion in places like Italy, Spain, Portugal, Mexico? ...nothing.

In response first of all we should once again remind them that Ukraine is not Russia, nor Russian territory.

Secondly being independent Kyiv has its own mind and now a President who is a member of the UOC-KP and who welcomes Catholics. As President of his own country he should darn well have a voice in this. Let Yushchenko speak on this as well.

Thirdly we would welcome a dialogue with all three major UOCs present as well as a presence from the RCs and UGCC. If we talk, everyone gets a place at the table. That would be Christian dialogue.

Sorry to post on my daughter's screen name, but I keep losing my darn password!
My question is this, since I am pretty uninformed: is the Russian Orthodox church the primary focus of Rome's hopes for reconciliation? If the Russian Orthodox church came into full communion with Rome, would the majority of Orthodoxy follow?
In Him,
Michele

I don't really think any Church is going to act unilaterally, but if the Russian Orthodox Church did. I think the others would follow. With a few holdouts by the arch arch conservatives being the exception. Those you know who are in communion with no one except themselves, who are the true bearers of Orthodoxy.
Stephanos I

They said, "Buy our temples; they're on sale."

Hold on! That would be expecting too much. This would draw attention to their blind spot. Let the Ukrainians speak for themselves.

Joe

Better the Orthodox buy them than the Muslims !

I.F.

I fail to see the "craziness" in what Patriarch Alexei said.

No. I for one would NOT. There is only one condidtion of reconciliation, and that is that the Bishop of Rome became Orthodox in his beliefs. There is no other way!

"I fail to see the "craziness" in what Patriarch Alexei said."

THEN WAKE UP AND SMELL THE INCENSE!

Who are we to sit in judgement of Alexi II or Vladimir Putin. Each must answer for himself in the day of Judgement. Let us rather work toward Unity on the Russian Church. I became Orthodox as ROC-MP. I find no ill with it!

Christ Is Among Us! Indeed He Is And Ever Shall Be!

First of all, calling the MP's actions "craziness" serves no purpose in Christian love and I thought that the admin and the mods had rules about such things. If not, they should have.

Secondly, if indeed the Ukrainian President is a member of the UOC-KP, HE IS NOT ORTHODOX! Despite the shortcomings of the Autonomous Church (UOC-MP), it is the only one in full communion with worldwide Orthodoxy. And the Orthodox Church's problems with the KP are not merely nationalism, the strength of the MP, or any of the other stated or unstated reasons. The deposed Met. Filaret has a rather checkered history and some of his parish activity in North America is directly at the expense of jurisdictions accepted under the EP in 1990 (Canada, as Alex well knows) and 1995 (those not in communion up to that point in the USA and South America). So the point is, not only the Autonomous Church's NA equivalent (the OCA), but also some important members of the EP jurisdictions (and probably the rest of SCOBA as well in honor of their wishes) would have serious problems with any solution toward Ukrainian Orthodox recognized canonical unity involving the current leadership of the KP. And last (but certainly not least), the recognized Autonomous Church (MP) is by far the largest anyway, especially in the "non Orange" east and south.

Respectfully,

Three Cents

Three Cents, you would say the history of Patriarch Alexei (i.e. Agent Drozdov) is not also checkered? Ask Fr. Gleb Yakunin or others. No one from that era has a closet without skeletons, KP, MP or whomever.

I think rather the appropriate Orthodox response would be to let the elder sister of Kyiv have that most Orthodox concept of autocephaly. The Church in Ukraine is far larger than many national Orthodox churches currently existing. Judging the individual orthodoxy of Mr. Yushchenko or anyone else for that matter will not help.

Do you not also consider the ROCOR Orthodox because they are not currently in communion with the MP? I do not think Archbishop Vsevelod or his brother bishops of the UOC in communion with Constantinople would bear any ill feelings against Constantinople for accepting communion with the KP if that were to happen.

The Bulgarian Orthodox Church was considered "non canonical" for many years before being finally recognized. And there are other historical examples.

As a Catholic it is difficult for us to see someone deprived of their status as a "believer" simply because they wish something which historically has been granted, albeit often with difficulty, as an ecclesial right. All of the bishops were consecrated in what the Catholics would call Apostolic Succession, validly, most of them by former MP bishops. Many of the priests were also MP priests.

It is difficult for me to believe that one act, which is consistent historically with others who have been refused legitimate requests for autocephally, and which has little to do with the Seven Ecumenical Councils, suddenly removes the efficacy of the sacraments of the KP. The Creed is the same, the Liturgy is the same, and even the same bishops ordained some of the same priests.

All of the ecclesial bantering aside, I do hope and pray for a peaceful solution to the situation of the Orthodox Churches in Ukraine, and sincerely hope our Patriarch Lubomyr can be of service in that endeavor. Razom nas bahato!

Diak ,,

Your PM Box has overflowed - please could you restore a wee bit of room in it

Anhelyna