www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Ukraine

Whoops. That avatar was way tooo big. I'm going to have to figure out how to reduce its size. (Any suggestions out there?)

And I've even lost track of what I was going to post here in the first place.

Sorry for the interruption.

THANKS!

I needed a good laugh

ROFL I thought only us old folks did stuff like that. LOL.

Dear Friends,

Well, it's not over until the big avatar sings . . .

Yanukovych is refusing to concede and it looks like the Supreme Court will again be called upon to formally declare who is the winner and the (sore) loser.

Perhaps the new administration under President Yuschenko can declare a law that prevents people with criminal records, like Yanukovych, from ever seeking presidential office in future?

And perhaps the Russian Orthodox Church and its satellite, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Moscow Patriarchate can learn a final lesson about being so subservient to the state and Russian chauvinist nationalism - and stop approving criminals like Yanukovych only because his is a pro-Russian imperialist platform?

The Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine (aka the UOC-MP) has really put its foot in it this time.

"Canonical Orthodoxy?" It can keep its canonicity. And its blind caesaro-papist following of the almighty state.

My own view is that, in future, Ukrainians should try and stay as far away from such "Orthodoxy" as possible.

Alex

I believe that in the next couple of months we will be observing a kind of metamorphosis in Ukrainian Orthodoxy. We really do not need to have a crystal ball to say what will happen to the UOC-MP in the near future. They were already losing ground, although in a slow pace since the day of independence of Ukraine. True Ukrainian Orthodoxy must now unite. This is the will of the people, this will has been seen, heard and now must be done. I also believe that in 2005 we will see much comotion in reference to the Ukie Greek Catholic Patriarchate issue and maybe its recognition. It would be interesting to see the recognition done firstly by the Ukrainian government and being so the Vatican would just have to recognize it, like it or not. That would be really cool. What do you guys say?
Lauro

I certainly don't know enough about this situation to make any strong predictions, but I have a hunch or two and maybe a comment.

I think there will always be a core group of UOC-MP in Ukraine because of the large number of ethnic Russians in the country, if the Moskva-Ukrainians begin to assimilate into Ukrainian culture that could change things, but I doubt it due to the proximity of Russia; and the accessibility of Russian media will work against that.

I also believe that there will be a conglomeration of the Orthodox churches in Ukraine, although how soon I couldn't say. It could quickly become very large if it continues to draw some congregations and priests from the UOC-MP. This will be the body whose Metroplitan receives recognition as a Patriarchate from the government, and later across the globe.

If the UGCC does not participate in some way with this newly reconstituted Ukrainian church it will be marginalized. I suppose that it is not likely that the government would start regarding the Ukrainian Catholic Metropolitan as a Patriarch as well. If it falls out in that way the moment would be lost.

If the UGCC metropolitan ever does acquire recognition from Rome as a Patriarch but only after the other theoretical Patriarchate acquires some international and inter-Patriarchal recognition he will look like an also-ran and not have as much credibility.

Any way, that's how I see it today.

Michael

The vatican should recognise the Slavic Byzantine Patriach and stop being so inert.
The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church should stop being a minority by own choice.Everyone that is in power is looking for minorities to kick around.
Sory to say. I got the impression that the Popes Mum religion was on the backfoot of a Polish/priest/bishop/pope.
A "Slavic Byzantine Patriarch" would give a uplift to all the people of the east not only the Ukrainians. It would give Yushenko a status that is missing.
This time the Holy Father could honor the memory of his mother. Not doing so wil let him die with the biggest blunder of his life.
SEND YELLOW RIBBONS TO THE VATICAN. The People have spoken!!!
Please get out of that minority status you all so love. I know you miss the many reasons to cry. So what. Uplift yourself, it is in your own hands.

Wilhelm.

Sory

Send ORANGE ribbons to the vatican.

Will

Indeed Alex - and please forgive my tardy reply to your post

You said here we go again - the result is close - but it's not the way that Yanukovych wanted it - the people have chosen Yuschenko - but 'our hero' :sarcasm: coming from the Russian leaning areas of Ukraine as he does feels that conceding is showing weakness - so he's not going to give in. He's even shouting fraud , irregularities etc etc. Funny - he was willing to accept flawed results before.

You also said Yeah - well 'twould be rather nice but I think we have a snag here - all the papers that were about Yanukovych have errrrr vanished - those that went to Russia are now no longer in existence - so they can't be produced - and after all his record was expunged . No record - well can't really say that he has a criminal record can we ?

And as befits a non Ukie RC [ oops sorry - I meant latin ] I'm staying out of any argument over UGCC and ROC-MP and UOC-KP - I don't know enough

Anhelyna

A brief aside
__________________

Coalesco wrote: "I think there will always be a core group of UOC-MP in Ukraine because of the large number of ethnic Russians in the country..."

These Ukrainian allophones made up some 20% of the population of Ukraine about a dozen years ago. There are now about 17.4% of such Ukrainian citizens left in Ukraine today.

The reasons for this dropping trend are complex--I personally suspect that many moved out of the country, with their Ukrainian husbands, to California.

Anthrodox

Or Canada!

Tammy

Yanukovich has resigned as Prime Minister of Ukraine.

According to CNN, it is official: http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/12/31/ukraine.vote.ap/

I had some horilka last night to celebrate Yushchenko's victory. I guess I'll just have to have some more tonight.

Разом нас багато!!!

Great night to celebrate Diak - and I missed the announcement - I was in the kitchen and missed it.

This is really the dawn of a new era for Ukraine

Anhelyna