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Joined: Jul 2006
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In early November, 2006, the Orthodox Christian Laity held a conference in Baltimore, MD to discuss issues of and relating to administrative unity among the Orthodox jurisdictions in America. The talks are very helpful and can be downloaded.

http://www.orthodoxnews.com/index.c...4&CFID=41419496&CFTOKEN=11870143

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With all due respect, speaking as an Orthodox Christian, I would avoid both the OCL and "Archbishop" Lazar Puhalo like the plague.

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Originally Posted by Ilian
With all due respect, speaking as an Orthodox Christian, I would avoid both the OCL and "Archbishop" Lazar Puhalo like the plague.

Ilian,

Can you explain your reservation and why your place his ecclesiastical title in quotation marks?

Gordo

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Originally Posted by Ilian
With all due respect, speaking as an Orthodox Christian, I would avoid both the OCL and "Archbishop" Lazar Puhalo like the plague.

Dear Ilian,

I couldn't agree with you more about OCL.

In Christ,
Alice

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Perhaps, within the bounds of charity, someone can explain to Orthodox outsiders the issues here? I see many well known names on the speaker list, and am unsure why they would lend their name to such a movement if it needs to be avoided like the plague!

Thanks,

Gordo

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Gordo,

I am going to quote Slavipodvizhnik from another thread which seems to sum up and the goals of OCL and leave it at that.

Quote
I did not even have to click your link to know from whence such garbage came from. The "Orthodox Christians" for Accountability counts amongst them many of the infamous OCL, Orthodox Christian Laity. A more modernist, anti ecclesiastical, anti Orthodox group of people would be difficult to find on the planet. They have, for a hobby, the practice of suing Orthodox bishops in secular courts.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+


Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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Thank you, Father. I still find it curious why a Terry Mattingly and Peter Gilquist would be on their speaker lists, given their very prominent roles within Orthodoxy.

One more question: Is this a pan-Orthodox group or is it primarily tied to the EP?

Gordo

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Gordo,

The group is not tied to any one particular group or jurisdiction, just wherever they can spin their plots. I am sure they will be finding someone else to sue sometime soon.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+


Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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Well I don't want it to be you so I won't ask any more questions! grin

Gordo

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Gordo, I will reply to your specific questions in a PM.

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Dear Gordon,

I have sent you a p.m. with my thoughts and some answers to your questions.

Regards,
Alice

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I'm confused, the talks by Terry Mattingly and Peter Gilquist are wonderful. Holy Cross Church and the Mathewes-Green's have been a great help to me in understanding and loving the Orthodox Church. Fr. Kevin Scherer's work is main stream? I wish I understood your concerns.

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Father Jim,

It is not the speakers that are the problem, but if read through the posts above you will see it is the sponsoring organization everyone has issue with. OCL has cost a great deal of pain and undo legal costs to the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese by trying to force their agenda upon it. It looks like now they are setting their sites on another Orthodox jurisdiction that may not be able to muster the financing to resist their agenda. That is the issue, not the speakers.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+


Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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I am willing to be more blunt(surprise!).
"Archbishop" Lazar Puhalo, aka defrocked Deacon Lev Puhalo, aka Ron Haler, is a well known "actor" in Orthodox circles. He was defrocked as a deacon and laicized by the Synod of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia for teaching and propogating the heresy of "soul sleep", despite numerous appeals and warnings to cease and desist. He immediatey made the rounds of various "schismatic" Orthodox Churches, amongst them being the "Free Serbian Orthodox Church", The "Kieven Patriarchate" and the "Milan Synod", all without canonical release from the ROCOR, and ordained priest and consecrated bihop uncanonically, being defrocked and laicized and under "epitemia". He has been in more jurisdictions than Marie Presley has had husbands! The man could make jumping jurisdictions an Olympic event! For some reason that I have never seen explained, the OCA decided to accept him as a "retired" bishop, but forbidden to post on the internet and isolated in a remote monastery in Canada. Unfortunately, "Archbishop" Lazar mantains a busy speaking schedule, much to the dismay of the OCA hierarchy, who are otherwise occupied currently, and is much sought after as a speaker by those who support a, for lack of a better word, "Protestant" role model for the Orthodox Church. Amongst the revisionist policies that he has put forth include things like a married episcopate and attacks on monasticism, with Elder Ephraim of the GOA and Hieromonk Seraphim Rose of Blessed memory being particular targets of his tirades, in which he accuses them of being cults, while at the same time surrounds himself with his followers like a guru. He is a syncretist who endorses dualism and this is what he means by his introduction of "the force" in his star wars movies, traits quite inimicable to Orthodoxy. Refer to: http://www.next-wave.org/may99/starwars.htm

Among some of his loonieness are the following:

Archbishop Lazar believes the USA & WTO want to annex Canada and they are engaging in a conspiracy to pressure Canadians into legislation which will bring it about.

http://friendsoffreedom.org/article.php?sid=80

NATO is the front for a New World Order and is run by America with the express intent of creating Slave States!!

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a376572db6551.htm

Even the "Milan Synod" which elevated him to the Episcopacy now regrets their involvement with him:

Statement

September 2000

THE HOLY ORTHODOX METROPOLIA OF MILAN & AQUILEIA
WESTERN EUROPE & AMERICA

Concerning Incorrect Information Posted on the Internet
About the New Ostrog Monastery In Canada
Belonging to the Jurisdiction of Archbishop Lazar
________________

We were very astonished about the way the history of this very small church is presented. We suppose that the archives of the New Ostrog Monastery are very inaccurate about historical information. Since Archbishop Lazar and Bishop Varlaam were consecrated by our Metropolia we are able to provide the public with better information.

First: Archbishop Lazar was consecrated by the will and initiative of our Primate, Metropolitan Evloghios, who proposed Vladyka Lazar as a candidate to the Holy Synod of our Metropolitan Church which received complete autonomy in 1984 from the head of the Old Calendar Church of Greece, Archbishop Auxentios.

In 1989, Metropolitan Gabriel, the first primate of our Metropolia, abandoned our jurisdiction and was received as bishop, together with his other vicar bishops, into the Orthodox Church of Poland.

In 1990, Archbishop Evloghios of Milan was elected as second primate and proposed the consecration of then Archimandrite Lazar to the remaining Synod after the departure of the Portuguese bishops. The Synod of our Metropolia accepted this proposal of the new Primate Evloghios and Father Lazar was consecrated bishop by him, assisted by Archbishop Gregorio of Turin and Bishop Vigile of France.

For this reason it is completely wrong when our brethren of New Ostrog Monastery publish on the internet that Archbishop Lazar was ordained under Patriarch Volodymir of Kiev after the Autonomous Metropolia of Western Europe and Canada entered into the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Kiev. This assertion by New Ostrog Monastery is absolutely false because the holy Patriarch Volodymir of Kiev was not even a bishop at the time of Abp. Lazar�s consecration, but only an archimandrite. It was only afterwards that Archimandrite Volodymir became vicar bishop and in 1992 Archbishop of Lviv.

The information on the internet from New Ostrog Monastery reads: �In 1994, at the decision of Patriarch Volodymir, Vladyka Lazar was elevated to archbishop and Father Varlaam was consecrated bishop of Vancouver.� We are very scandalized because of these false statements.


In 1989 the head of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in America, Metropolitan Mstyslav (who later became the first Patriarch of the Ukrainian Church) recognized our Autonomous Metropolitan Church as �equal to us� and granted us spiritual communion. Only in 1994 did we enter in canonical communion with Kiev, but even then as completely independent and autonomous, according to the conditions of our original tomos of autonomy from Archbishop Auxentios of Greece. Because the holy Patriarch Volodymir was a very correct prelate, he respected our Church and our autonomy. For this reason he never�we emphasize, never�interfered in the internal questions of our Church, as, for example, the consecration of bishops. He never dared to decide any consecration of bishops for our Church. For this reason the text of the New Ostrog Monastery is an invention and not a fraternal sign of gratitude for our Primate, Metropolitan Evloghios, who has always shown great respect and brotherly love for Vladyka Lazar. To hide this reality is not a correct way of behaving. We still have in our archives the written agreements of our bishops concerning the intention of Metropolitan Evloghios to elevate Bishop Lazar to Archbishop and ordain Father Varlaam as bishop.

In 1997 we decided to retire our communion with the deposed Patriarch Filaret for two reasons: first, Michael Filaret Denisenko never respected our Church and its autonomy--his intentions were to destroy our autonomy; second, the deposition, anathematisation and excommunication of Michael Filaret Denisenko by the Patriarchate of Moscow was accepted by the other Orthodox Churches and created so many internal problems for us that we decided to retire our intercommunion by synodal decision.

Archbishop Lazar subsequently, and without consulting his Primate, Metropolitan Evloghios (who had always been a great benefactor to him and to whom he owes all his ecclesiastical dignity) abandoned our autonomous Church to follow a deposed and discredited �patriarch.� Despite this we still hope that one day Archbishop Lazar will repent, understanding his great lack of gratitude, and return so that there will be a great feast as the Gospel tells of the prodigal son.

Issued by

The Autonomous Metropolia of Milan and Aquileia
Western Europe and America

In the month of September, 2000

Need I go on?

Now as far as the OCL, the Orthodox Christian Laity, know that they are neither Orthodox, nor Christian in their thoughts or deeds. They have one goal, destruction of the Orthodox Church as we know it and replaced by Neo Protestantism init's worst form, with their hand picked representatives running it. They have sued and attempted to sue the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese, and were directly responsible for removing the Greek Orthodox Archbishop from power, because he was, (hard to believe!) Greek!
What did they expect him to be, Puerto Rican? Stay far away from these people! Have nothing to do with them!

Now this brings me to my real point, and it is something that many will not like. There is a tendency amongst American inquirers about Orthodoxy and even American Orthodox to assume that the theological works and opinions available to them represent Orthodox thinking in it's entirety. Alas, if this were only the case! Much of what is available in the English language tends to be of the Far Left Wing School of thought. Popular "theologions" such as Frs Schmemmann, Lossky, Meyendorff, etc represent a certain school of thought amongst the Orthodox. Unfortunately, as their writing are the only ones readily available in the English language, many here in this country assume that they represent Orthodoxy in it's entirety. They do not! It is a big problem that is making itself known today by some of the inherent problems of such theology being made manifest. More mainstream theologions such as Pomozhansky, Papademetriou, St Ignati Brianchaninov, St. Nektarios of Aegina, St. Nikolai Velimirovic and others are seldom if ever available in English. As an example, at many seminaries in Russia, Fr Schmemmanns books are not to be found, as they do not represent mainstream Orthodox thought. There have even been cases where his books were burnt! That is not the norm, but it has happened. While not condoning such draconian measures, the Church in Russia has enough problems without introducing American pseudo Orthodox fantasies.

A comparison might be if the only available Catholic theologions in English was Hans Kung or Alfred Loisy, one might come away with a concept of Catholic theology that was flawed. Well the same thing holds true amongst the Orthodox. So please be aware that what you read, might not neccesarily be wrong, but it might not be totally right either.



Alexandr

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Fr. Anthony and Alexandr, thank you for your clarifications.

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