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Dec 29th, 2019
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Joined: Mar 2002
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There have been some articles posted recently on the Ukrainian version of the RISU [ risu.org.ua] web site addressing this issue. None gives a definitive answer. I went through 20 pages worth of Ukrainian language news items on RISU (late) last night and didn't notice any... BTW, are you perchance a member of the (Detroit) kapellia? (I'm considering travelling to Troy, NY for the May 5 concert)
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Joined: Nov 2001
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Dear Roman,
There is no definitive answer on that - someone bombed it and it could have been either of those two groups of gentlemen . . .
The Nazis regarded most Ukrainians as Soviet supporters, as you know, and would take them in droves to throw up against the soviet guns to be mowed down.
My grandparents joined many others to come at night to feed these unfortunate people as they waited for dawn when they were slated to die.
Alex
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Thanks for the replies, KO63AP & Alex. I'd like to pursue this a little further, but I have to get 8 tax returns done by Monday!
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I just found Mohyla's Trebnik online:
[url=http://www.liturgy.ru/grafics/pmogila1/page.php?p=0&cd=&k=][/url]
I have spent the last 3 hours reading. I am posting it here in case any one else is interested. However, I am usually the last person to discover these things so it may be old news to you guys.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Could we have that web-site again, please? Thanks!
Fr. Serge
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Christ is Risen! Xpuctoc Bockprec! Sorry, here it is: This is page 1 of the Trebnyk: http://www.liturgy.ru/grafics/pmogila1/page.php?p=0&cd=&k=This is the main web site and if you scroll down will find Mohyla�s Trebnyk in 3 parts: http://www.liturgy.ru/docs/docs_all/graphics.phpI guess there is a wealth of materials available online now. Don't tell my parents please! They will want to know why I am still storing all my school books in boxes in their basement at home. I don't have room at my place (apartment). I was surprised to read in Mohyla's Trebnyk that baptism is by triple immersion for adults although there is allowance made for infants presumably in case of cold churches and danger to the health of the child. I wonder if �sprinkling� for infant baptism was already evident in church practice by this time.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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This web-site is wonderful. Thank you so very much for posting it!
Fr; Serge
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Christ is Risen! Xpuctoc Bockprec!
You are welcome Fr. I spent half the night reading it and just woke up at 12 noon EST. I guess it will give me an opportunity to go straight to the primary sources and understand why he was canonized.
I greatly appreciate everyone's comments on St. Petro Mohyla in my quest for knowledge. Please keep the info coming.
God bless,
Orest
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Dear Orest,
Yes - St Petro Mohyla allowed for "sprinkling" in case of emergency.
However, as we know, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church afterwards allowed for a wider use of sprinkling - something the Russian Orthodox Church frowned upon and when Ukrainian Orthodox migrated to Russia in the 18th and 19th centuries, there were cases of Ukrainians being "re-baptised" by triple immersion.
Alex
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Jessup B.C. Deacon Member
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Jessup B.C. Deacon Member
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Posts: 1,346 Likes: 1 |
As a Byzantine Catholic Deacon (Passaic Eparchy-Pittsburgh Metropolia), I can add a bit of info on Met. Peter Mohyla. About 5 yrs. ago, I took an on-line course with St. Tikhon's OCA seminary on the topic of "Orthodox Spirituality". It was a Masters level course which was centered in the writings of Fr. Dimitru Staniloae. He was a great defender of Palamistic Hesychasm. In researching a paper contrasting and comparing Catholic and Orthodox approaches to spirituality (i.e. the steps toward union with God; purification, illumination, and union), I came across information to the effect that St. Gregory Palamas' formula that one can achieve union with the energies, but not the essence of God, was not unanimously accepted in Eastern Orthodoxy. Palamas, to the best of my knowledge, did not accept the Western notion of the "beatific vision", because that would imply more than union with only the "energies" of God. If my memory is correct, Mohyla's catechism, probably because of exposure to scholastic thinking, affirms the notion of the "beatific vision". I also came across information to the effect that, just prior to the abdication of the Russian Monarchy, the hierarchy of the Moscow Patriarchate had removed most, if not all, "Palamistic" spirituality teachings from it's Synodikon. I am wondering if that was due to lingering influence of Met. Peter (or, perhaps the lingering influence of Peter the Great)?
Christ Is Risen!
Dn. Robert
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Dear Father Deacon Robert,
My own view is that it would probably be due to the Westernizing influence of both.
In fact, Tsar St Nicholas II had a similar program of Westernization and democratization for Russia, despite his avowed Russophilism and nationalism.
This is why, in fact, Tsar Nicholas II was taken out - had his plans materialized, they would have done irreparable damage to the Bolshevik agenda and, who knows, could have put it on indefinite hold (now what a thought!).
Certainly, under the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the UGCC was obliged to remove a number of icons and saints from her calendar because they were seen as being "too Orthodox" and therefore tending toward Russophilism which the Empire abhorred. In fact, Ukrainian Catholic priests at the time were much greater Russophiles than even the rank and file of the Russian Orthodox Church . . . was it Lenin that coined the phrase, "useful idiots?"
Alex
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Jessup B.C. Deacon Member
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Jessup B.C. Deacon Member
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was it Lenin that coined the phrase, "useful idiots?"
Alex He did indeed. He was a master of language. Apropos of nothing relative to this thread, he also said that the capitalists will "sell us the rope with which we will hang them". I also am intrigued by the comment of Josef Dzhugashvili (Stalin), a onetime Georgian Orthodox seminarian, who said that "laws are like piecrusts, made to be broken". While we are quoting prominent dead Bolsheviks, I'll add the one by Nikita Khruschev, a noted Ukrainian peasant, who said that Communists will change their plans for world revolution when "shrimps learn to whistle" ( I always wondered what that funny sound was in the seafood section of our local grocery store!  ). Dn. Robert
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