www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Transfer of Rites and vocation question

Bob,

I would have to say I'm surprised to hear that at this point in history, Rome is pressing Byzantine bishops not to allow transfers of canonical jurisdiction to the ECCs. It was my impression that everything coming from Rome since Vat. II has been very pro-Eastern, and that it was primarily the local bishops that would quietly encourage ECs to become RCs, while discouraging moves in the opposite direction.

Furthermore, the EC bishops are well aware (aren't they?) that it's not Rome's place to be "pressing" them over such matters. If it were something forbidden in the CCEO that the EC bishops were ignoring and Rome thought they shouldn't, that would be a different matter--but it's not.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

What Rome does not want--and what we should reject entirely--is accepting transfers into our Churches by men whose sole objective is to seek ordination to the priesthood. Rome was afraid that there would be a rush of married men into the Eastern Churches seeking to circumvent the celibacy requirements of the Latin Church. I doubt that there would be any mass movement. On the other hand, if we were to accept men into our Churches who were in search of ordination, they would probably be the last people on earth we would want wearing a phelonion.

AMEN to that.

However, I'm a laissez-faire type of guy. If we were to willy-nilly accept people, then we should face the consequences.....

Markos

"But if it happens that the spiritual factor is totally lacking, then the monastic organization [or the Christian eparchy] disintegrates or turns into one that is authoritarian".

- Prof. Gregorios Mantzaridis, Unv. of Thessaloniki, "The Spirit of Monastic Typikon". [my addition in brackets]

Deacon Richard:

Christ is in our midst!!

I've been told more than once that Rome does not want to see Latin men moving to the Eastern Catholic Churches simply to circumvent the requirement of celibacy for Latin priests. In other words, a move to an Eastern Catholic Church would also close the door to preistly ordination for a man who was born and raised in the Latin Church.

How that works on the ground is beyond my guess. But the men who told me this were not just your run-of-the-mill parish priests. Two were seminary professors and another highly placed in the Latin Church.

BOB

Having spoken to Bishops George, William, and Gerald, all of Van Nuys, what they want in a transfer is a love of the Byzantine praxis. Bishop Gerald's comment, "On transfers, I pretty much just rubber stamp them."

Admission to the seminary requires several years practice within the Metropolitan church, however.

Bob,

I see. From that perspective it makes sense.

One would have to embrace an Eastern tradition for its own sake, not for ulterior motives. Thanks for explaining this.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

I am just wondering. How many people actually would do this without having a genuine love for the Eastern Church? Perhaps a few might, but how real is this problem?

What are we going to do if Orthodox and Catholic ever re-unite? Are we going to tell Latin Rite Catholic men that if they're drawn to an Orthodox parish they can never consider the priesthood? In short, Orthodox parishes would have to play by Catholic rules? I don't think that would be a workable situation.

Isn't this fear of "how are you going to keep them down on the farm" something that needs to change? Do we really belive that East and West live together in harmony?

That last line should read: "can live together in harmony?"

Dave,

I don't know that it's an overwhelming issue, but I think it is real - unfortunately - because I've seen it actually voiced on the net by some folks over the years. (Of course, that begs the question as to whether the net is reality - but let's not go there ).

The thing is that those who raise the issue seem, invariably, to be folks who have just discovered Eastern Christianity and, simultaneously, have a sudden epiphany - 'hey, now I can be a priest like I always wanted to be before I married Lucretia and fathered Herman and Hermione'.

I'm less convinced than Bob that it can't happen and happen successfully, because I've seen it done, but it clearly requires a commitment to the Eastern Church that must generally be evidenced in a period of lay involvement prior to approaching one's bishop and suggesting that one has discerned a vocation. Submitting one's Request for Canonical Transfer and Seminary Application (with request for spousal housing) in the same envelope is probably not for the best.

Many years,

Neil

I'm sure that it does happen. But, so much so that people would be told if you go East you would never get ordained? (Just to make it clear that I've never felt any call to the priesthood.)

Again, are we serious about wanting a reunited Church? If so, then we'll have to learn to live with the different realites between East and West.

Or, are we going to still suppress the ordination of married men to the priesthood in the Eastern Church after reunion?

No, I would disagree with that, but would offer the caveat that it should not - cannot - be the overriding motivation to go to the East.

Many years,

Neil

Agreed.

Well, if you're going East, make sure that its simply because you love the Liturgy and the rite concerned. More importantly, see if you're ready to accept that the culture of your potential congregation may be heaps different than that of yours.

For example, while they won't force you to learn Arabic, you can't join the Melkites unless you can accept Arab culture and whatnots. Its not a total requirement, but you'd have to know what you're getting into. If they can't accept you as one of their own, they won't want you leading them.

Most importantly, with the East, its not a matter of celebrating Mass and then running off. Most Eastern Christian communities come from ethnic backgrounds where community bonding is a big part of their life. As Westerners, we tend to be very private people but thats all got to change if you're going to go East.

All in all, from one Roman who's made the switch to another, priesthood is not going to happen instantly. Priestly faculties will mean nothing if you don't have what it takes to journey with the community. In reference to St. Paul, all the power to "move mountains" will be worthless if we do not have love.

So, firstly, embrace the East and what it has to offer, and your priesthood will come to you - married or not. If your happiness will be jeopardised at the thought of this, don't do it. When you're not happy, your community won't be happy.

Absolutely - you can be ignorant of Arabic, but you have to know the difference between fataya and sfiha

Let's also keep in mind that this is primarily a Ruthenian thing, and that no prior constraints have been placed upon any other Eastern Catholic Church operating in the United States. The Melkites, the Ukrainians, the Romanians and the Russians can and will do whatever they want regarding the ordination of Latin converts.

I am certain, however, that in their discernment process these Churches will not accept those whose only motivation for conversion is the desire to be a priest.