Glory to Jesus Christ! My family and I transfered churches six years ago. We had been taking part in the Byzantine Church for over two years before the official transfer. I entered the Deacon Formation program about three and a half years ago in the Eparchy of Parma. There were no problems either in transfering to the Byzantine Church from the local Latin Bishop or in the entrance into the Formation program in regards to me formerly being a member of the Latin Church. It is very do-able, but as has been said so many times before, you must transfer out of love for your new home. Ordination is never a right. It comes with much prayer on your part and on that of your Bishop. God grant you many years, McPhelan
The primary reason to change church of ritual enrollment is that it places one under the obligations and calendar of the receiving Church Sui Iuris.
Until one does that, one is still obligated to the holy days of one's church of enrollment. On is still obligated to the sunday observances of one's church of enrollment, as well.
For example, Romans have Jan 1 as a holy day of obligation; A Ruthenian parish observes Jan 6th, instead, but a roman in a ruthenian parish is still obliged to observe Jan 1.
Another example: The Ukrainian GCC has specified that, if one is working on sunday, saturday vespers fulfill one's obligation. For a roman, however, that is not the case, even if they are attending Ukrainian Vespers.
Assuming that I haven't transferred over canonically just yet, I don't see why we can't oblige ourselves to the calendar of our new Eastern Church. Canon law is merely a guide and is not spirituality. Secondly, "obligation" is a word I rarely hear in the Eastern Churches.
Assuming that I haven't transferred over canonically just yet, I don't see why we can't oblige ourselves to the calendar of our new Eastern Church. Canon law is merely a guide and is not spirituality. Secondly, "obligation" is a word I rarely hear in the Eastern Churches.
Collin,
So true as regards 'obligation' - but it is there in the Latin Church and, given the restrictions on transfer, those not yet formally released from the Latin Church are so obligated.
Many years,
Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
So true as regards 'obligation' - but it is there in the Latin Church and, given the restrictions on transfer, those not yet formally released from the Latin Church are so obligated.
And I remember the sage advice that St. Ambrose of Milan gave to St. Monica: When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Conversely, when in Constantinople, Moscow, Kiyv or Antioch, do as they do. Regardless of what legal "obligations" the Roman Church wants to impose, a person should engage fully in the spiritual life of the community with which he worships, and a man cannot serve two masters. If a person is living as an Eastern Catholic, he cannot live as a Roman Catholic, too, even if still canonically attached to the Latin Church. In any case, the Fathers would have thought this entire conversation ludicrous.
Then again, Stuart, The Fathers also seldom (not always) had only one rite represented in a diocese/eparchy, and didn't have overlapping jurisdictions.
Overlapping jurisdictions were a means of preserving the Eastern Rites from being barred in the US by overzealous Roman church hierarchs...
When in Rome, indeed... by that rule, we should all be smoking peacepipes after time in the sweatlodge and talking about the Great Spirit...
Then again, Stuart, The Fathers also seldom (not always) had only one rite represented in a diocese/eparchy, and didn't have overlapping jurisdictions.
Ritual differences become an issue only towards the end of the first millennium. There were many different rites in use in Rome, as well as in Constantinople, Antioch and Alexandria. People moved from one Church to another seamlessly--particularly monastics--without regard to jurisdictional boundaries or ecclesial discipline.
In any case, Rome should not make rules it is no position to enforce--unless it wants to send the Inquisitors into our parishes to find out of our Latin brethren are following Latin canonical disciplines while living among us. I notice that we do not make any reciprocal demands upon Eastern Catholics living in Latin parishes. Maybe we should start? But what would be the point, when we have allowed our own discipline to slouch into Latin practices, and do not in fact observe it ourselves?
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When in Rome, indeed... by that rule, we should all be smoking peacepipes after time in the sweatlodge and talking about the Great Spirit...
No thanks. Three people died recently giving that a try.
if you like reading: Frederica Mathewes-Green's book "Facing East" is excellent (she's a convert to the Orthodox Church from Anglicanism).
and I would agree with you, if you are considering transfering into one of the Eastern Catholic Churches, you have to come to get to know us and follow our way of life (worship, fasting, etc. etc.) as you make your discernment (otherwise you would have no "data" and the Hierarchs would not think much of your petition for transfer).
McPhelan, Your post is truly refreshing !! It speaks to my heart and soul. Thx for sharing a little bit of your spiritual journey towards God`s call. Francois
Absolutely - you can be ignorant of Arabic, but you have to know the difference between fataya and sfiha
I don't know what either are, but they both sound tasty
As for me, I'm pretty sure I was called, but then I met a gal I almost married. Then as I was getting ready to call the chancery about it, I met my wife.
At my age, the seminary probably isn't an issue anymore, but I'll be changing ritual church; I've found where I've belong.
I suppose I'm more "willing" than "seeking" at this point . . .
Absolutely - you can be ignorant of Arabic, but you have to know the difference between fataya and sfiha
I don't know what either are, but they both sound tasty
fatayah [images.search.yahoo.com] - usually spinach or meat (can be ground lamb, beef, or a mixture) - harder to find (but worth the hunt) are cheese fatayah
sfiha actually comes in a variety of forms - from one that resembles an open fatayah to others that look like a pizza made on pita bread - and several variations in between. Which form they take depends on the cook/ baker's place of origin. If you scroll about a quarter of the page down on this link [dirtykitchensecrets.com], you'll see the open fatayah style. Google the term and you can see several other versions.
Many years,
Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
This might give everyone a giggle: just this morning I was reading an article by a self-appointed pundit commenting on the planned "Catholic Anglican" Ordinariates - and claiming that the present Codes of Canon Law make no provision for anyone to "change rites"!
It seems that the only qualification(s) one needs to do journal articles on religious topics is either that one is completely ignorant of religious organizations and one is unchurched oneself OR one is both of the former AND completely antagonistic toward religious groups, especially the Catholic Church.
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