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Thank you, Father. If I may ask, who is Dr. Barstad?

From what I can find on the internet, Dr Barstad teaches theology at St. John Vianney Theological Seminary.

The terminology Dr. Barstad uses in his article is not consistent with the ecclesiology of the Catholic Church, both in referring to particular ritual Churches as "rites", and then referring to the Catholic Church corporately as the Roman Church.

Beyond that, his article undermines his conclusion, in that:

(a) He notes that the Melkite Synod has not recanted the Zoghby Initiative, but in fact continues to advance it through collaborative efforts with the Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch;
(b) Patriarch Gregorios III continues to insist on the ontological equality of all patriarchs, including the Patriarchs of Antioch and Rome;
(c) Rome has taken no affirmative action to reprove any of the Eastern Catholic hierarchs and theologians who have dissented from Ad Tuendem Fidei.

Agreed.

My apologies for being imprecise Fr. Ambrose, because when I said that I thought your comments gave an accurate appraisal of the historical situation in which Eastern Catholics found themselves in the 19th century, I was referring only to this portion of your post:

I agree that the Eastern Catholic Churches were held to be simply rites within the Roman Church prior to Vatican II. In fact, I remember visiting a Melkite Church in Akron Ohio where the cornerstone of the building said something along the lines of ". . . St. Joseph's Melkite Rite Roman Catholic Church."

Once again I apologize for the imprecise nature of my original remarks.

Happy Thanksgiving,
Todd

P.S. - I did not think that I needed to go into detail about the non-ecumenical nature of Western Councils, since my views on that issue are well known at this forum.

My apologies for not remembering your thoughts on this matter, However, there is a plethora of dissenting opinions among Eastern Catholics on these matters and it is not always easy to keep things straight in my old brain.

What would be, in your opinion, the majority Eastern Catholic view?

1. The Pope is infallibe? the Pope is not infallible?

2. Post schism Councils are Ecumenical and de fide? Posts schism Council are not Ecumenical and not theologically binding?

And I suppose the important corollary question... How will Eastern Cathiolics be able to form a cohesive theology for these matters? Would they need a pan-Eastern Catholic Council of their own?

The Pope is infallible when he speaks the truth--as are we all.

Post schism councils are binding on the Latin Church, unless they are received as binding by other Churches.

Cohesive theology is like sausage making--it's slow, it's messy, and you don't want to watch it being done.

I come back to my original point. If the dogma of infallibility is not intended by the Pope to be de fide for the entire Catholic Church then it lacks the essential and mandatory element of universality which is essential for it to be classified as an infallible dogma. As such it is not infallible and is not binding on either Roman Catholics or Eastern Catholics. The anathema attached to it against those who reject it would seem to have no weight.

You are absolutely correct, Father. The dogma of papal infallibility is of course propounded by the Catholic Church as a de fide dogma. What precisely the dogma means and how it functions is another question, but whatever it means, it is most certainly dogma to which the assent of faith is demanded. Thus Can. 597 in the Eastern Code:



Clearly the expectation is that the members of the Eastern Churches will assent to the de fide dogmas of the Catholic Church. Does not refusal to do so cast the Eastern Catholic into the role of dissenter, right up there with Hans Kung?

I dare not comment, although I like the Hans Kung touch. But obviously the Catholic Church has a greater crisis about unity of faith than the Orthodox have with the question of the existence or non existence of toll houses.

Is anything being done by the bishops or the Vatican to move Eastern Catholics closer to the Catholic faith in this matter?

The Vatican 1 definition is very tight: The pope is only infallible when he speaks ex cathedra on a matter of faith and morals.

Most of the EC's I've met accept that, even as most RC's I've met don't feel it goes far enough.

I agree.

Simply quoting a Roman Curial text like the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches is not going to convince me as an Eastern Catholic to abandon the doctrinal tradition of Melkite Church by embracing Western theories that some people wish to call dogmas. After all, in the speech delivered during the Synod of Bishops back in 2001 the Melkite Catholic Patriarch not only affirmed the equality of all the patriarchs within the Church (Rome, Antioch, etc.), but also said that that CCEO "ratified uses absolutely contrary to Eastern tradition and ecclesiology" and that Rome will continue to lose "credibility regarding ecumenical dialogue" until it changes its approach.

I found Cardinal Kasper's comments about the CCEO rather interesting: "Already the apostolic constitution enforcing the Eastern Code of Canon Law stated that its regulations were valid only in the intermediate term, that is, until full reconciliation with the Eastern Churches not in full communion. Thus, the model of the exercise of primacy we have in the Eastern Catholic Churches is not necessarily the model for the future reconciliation with the Orthodox Churches."

Ravenna Was "Breakthrough" in Orthodox-Catholic Ties [zenit.org]

I think I can say: believe me, there will not be a Code of Eastern Canons ever imposed on the Orthodox. We much prefer the jumble of sacred canons which we have. And, until the first rationalisation of the canons by the Church of Rome which took place only in 1917, the Roman Church enjoyed the same glorious jumble. In the freedom of these many canons the Holy Spirit enjoys the freedom to act and the bishops enjoy the discernment to act in the most appropriate manner for the citrcumstances.