www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Bishop Sheen Sainthood links to Byzantine Church

It's not the beard--if it was, three out of four Ruthenian bishops would be up the creek. It's more like when and how he chose to exercise his faculties--but remember, it was the late fifties and early sixties, and from a liturgical standpoint, the Ruthenians were in even worse shape than they are today.

On evangelization: Sheen's main contribution, I think, was to make Catholicism acceptable to mainstream Protestant America, which is most certainly was not even into the 1940s (Bing Crosby and Pat O'Brien not withstanding). The War probably got things moving by exposing young men to the Catholics in their units, and Sheen built on that.

StuartK,

Could you clarifiy what you mean by the above statement?

It comes across to me as if you're critical of a possible miraculous healing of an Eastern Catholic through the intercession of a Latin Catholic.

Saint Teresa Benedicta of the Cross (Edith Stein) was canonized following her intercession that led to the miraculous healing of a Melkite Catholic girl.

Why I personally prefer more prayers directed to such candidates for canonization as the Blessed Martyrs of Pratulin and Blessed Nicholas Charnetsky and Companions, we should give thanks to God that He has granted this miracle through this holy bishop, Fulton Sheen.

God bless,

Griego

I find the insistence upon documented miracles offensive. It's as if one is testing God. That aside, for centuries the notion that one could not venerated as a saint unless miracles could be accounted to one's intercession just did not exist: one could be identified as a saint without a single miracle to one's name--and in fact, the miracles usually followed the declaration of sainthood rather than vice versa.

At a broader level, I find the centralization of the entire process of canonization not to be consistent with the way in which the Church operated throughout the first millennium, and not consistent with the practice of the Eastern Churches. therefore it can hardly be "universal".

In fact, the Holy See arrogated the power to declare saints to itself in the middle ages, as a result of the great relics hunt, which resulted not only in spurious relics but spurious saints as well. As such, this is one of the Pope's "patrarchical powers"--it should only apply to the Latin Church, and if it did, I would be perfectly happy.

I would much prefer that we of the Eastern Churches be allowed to identify our own saints according to our own older, more organic process: a person is first venerated locally; then, through word of mouth and pilgrimages, regionally; and finally, through reception, universally. No forensic inquiry is wanted or needed. Nobody should have the power to tell an autonomous Church who should be in its Festal Menaion. Instead, we wait around for our holy fathers and mothers to garner the attention of the Vatican, and then feel absurdly grateful when our martyrs, mystics, evangelists, prophets and healers finally get their due.

I won't delve into the sometimes unseemly politics that accompanies the canonization process, which sometimes resembles an election campaign more than anything else.

So far as I know, no one has said that the Patriarchal Churches cannot canonize Saints, and use their own processes for the purpose.

Fr Serge

I'm not sure about that, but it should not just be patriarchal Churches, Father. Kyiv is not recognized as one, which probably explains the absence of both Metropolitan Andij and Patriarch Josef from the calendar.

Shlomo Aho (Peace Brother) Stuart,

Believe it or not, but I have a great affinity towards you, since you remind me of me in my early days of discovery.


I would ask you what are you doing to help get these saints recognized. A "saint" that is not of my tradition, but I do promote is Blessed Leonid Feodorov, Eparch of the Russian Catholic Church. I agree that we Easterners need to promote "our own". But our own does include our Latin Brothers and Sisters.


I would point out that Jesus told us to preach unto the nations, and Bishop Sheen did that using modern media.


Great


As one who belongs to a more Latinized Church I truly understand your frustration, but I would ask you what are you doing to help change your Church? Have you sat down with your pastor and said that you want to work on fulfilling the Spirit of Vatican II, the desires of the Holy Father, and the Eparchs of your Church? What teaching matterial have you designed to help your Church fulfill these goals?

I am not trying to bust you, what I am trying to do is direct your energies into a more positive avenue. If you want suggests and the like, I and others will be more than happy to help.

Fush BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

My dear Yuhannon,

If you belonged to my Church, you would soon realize that there is no room for dissent therein. The clergy is either latinized or cowed, and the people are ignored. The "pray, pay and obey" model of the laity is in full force.

Shlomo Aho Stuart,

There is always room for dissent. PPO is very popular in the Maronite Church also. If you read some of the old posts herein, you will see that the majority here knows that the Maronite Church is the most Latinized of the Eastern Churches after the Syro-Malankarese. In Minneapolis we lied to the congragation in order to have our Church rebuilt on a proper Syro-Antiochene style. Here in Las Vegas, I have been libeled and slandered because of my support of Vatican II, our Eparch and our Holy Synod and Patriarch's wish that we go back to our legitimate roots.

I know what you are talking about, my question is how much are you willing to risk? It is not fun being persecuted, but when you are right you have to take up the cross. As I said to you, if you need help let us know because nearly every active member here supports the idea that Eastern Catholicism reclaims its roots.

Fush BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

The Syro-Malankarese are not particularly Latinized; is it possible you are thinking of the Syro-Malabarese, who are a scandal to the jaybirds?

Fr. Serge

Deacon Robert,

I had no intention of questioning the propriety of Archbishop Sheen's celebration of the Divine Liturgy, nor his wearing of Byzantine vesture, although in re-reading my post, I can see that my remarks might have been construed as suggesting that he did so without the specific faculties to do so.

In fact, Father Serge, I, and others here have attempted (without success) to determine precisely when and by whom he was granted the faculties.

There are several older threads in which we've discussed his faculties and his use of them at some length. These include one that I resurrected from the archives, for purposes of reporting a reference, that I discovered in a parish history, to him going to one of the Byzantine parishes in NYC for instruction in serving the Divine Liturgy. That post was made within the past month, you should be able to find it by searching "Sheen", using my nick as the poster, and setting the timeframe as 'newer than 6 months'. The thread to which I appended the post details much of what we know about the Archbishop's involvement with the Eastern Churches, as I recollect.

Many years,

Neil

Neil,

My comments were not aimed at you, but at a general perception (widespread in my jurisdiction) that Abp. Sheen was simply dressed up in Byzantine vestments and allowed to celebrate, without any of the proper authorizations. Prior to posting here, I had circulated an e-mail, upon which Fr. Serge was listed as one of many recipients, which described the current efforts of the Eparchy of Parma, and in which I made the comment that the Archbishop's celebration at Uniontown was probably a violation of liturgical norms. It was at that point that Fr. Serge responded, via an e-mail, indicating that the Archbishop had obtained a bi-ritual faculty. Sorry for the confusion.

In Christ,
Dn. Robert

I have been listing to his speech given at the 1967 Melkite Convention. In it he states that it is with special permission given by the Vatican.

I am trying to figure out how to save it, so I can upload it someplace, that you can hear it too.

My information came from Father Cyril Korolevsky, who tended to know such things. But since he is long deceased, it's not possible to ask him for a specific reference!

Fr. Serge

Sounds like an echo of my late grandfather retelling his tales of the schism of the 1930's. As the French say, the more things change, the more they stay the same. Just to be fair, we Americans also observe that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Hang in there, all.

I don't have a horse in this race so to speak, but I do recall that Bishop Sheen spoke at a catered banquet during the 1960's at our Church Hall(ACROD) that the St. Bonaventure University Alumni used to hold there every spring. Our Orthodox parish was in the catering business at that time. The alumni usually brought in a ballplayer from the Yankees or the football Giants to speak so the Bishop was a change of pace. He was most gracious and he was fondly remembered for his kindness towards the babas who were the cooks. He went into the kitchen, gave them all a blessing and a prayer card. He surprised them by mentioning that he had been to Uniontown and noted that he saw that there was an equally large Byzantine Catholic Church down the street from ours. Of course he was a big 'TV' star at that time and everybody was in awe of him for that.