www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Pope Benedict Gifted Papal Tiara - By The Orthodox?!

Well, considering how many of the great cathedrals of Orthodoxy were built by heretic Italian architects, I don't think this pot can call the kettle black.

I might have been thinking along the lines of a Mercedes or Porsche. In any case a golden bejeweled tiara is not generally of much use to the poor.

I wonder if the fellow inquired of the Pope as to whether he wanted to resolve a wardrobe deficiency. The president of my university decided to thank a wealthy Chinese business man who has been a generous donor with a pair of rare Chinese elk of some kind for the donor's Texas ranch. Unfortunately, the president for got to ask what kind of ranch it was. Much to his embarrassment it turns out to be a hunting ranch, an, at best, inappropriate venue for rare animal species. Needless to say the donor refused the gift. So now we are faced with 20% budget cuts and the question of what to do with the two rare Chinese elk we own. Two intractable problems in the same year.

Maybe that look on the Pope's face is more one of astonishment than of joy.

Ha, ha, ha!! Agreed.

I'm interested to know what will happen to this tiara.
It may be put in the Papal Sacristy where the other tiaras are kept.

I have this image in my head of His Holiness sneaking out in the middle of the night to where the tiara is kept and putting it on his head while in front of a mirror. "Oh, just one time", he says to himself. ha, ha

When Blessed John XXIII gave away his own papal tiara, he announced that he was giving it "the poor of the world" - which turned out to mean Francis Cardinal Spellman (not known, surely, for his great poverty?) The result was a full-sixed wax work image of the Pope, tucked away by one of the sides of the High Altar. The first time I saw it I was so scared that I nearly screamed aloud, but managed to control myself. Don't honestly know if it is still there.


Fr. Serge

The tiara--or one of them, at least--is now on display in the Memorial Hall of the Basilica Church of the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in Washington.

Yeah and an eastern bishop's mitre looks like an ornamented chef's hat, so what?

Alexis

Oh and Jim, the popemobile wouldn't have to be altered at all as the tiara is only worn at certain liturgical functions (like a papal coronation) and sometimes when the pope is wearing his mantum. He wouldn't wear the tiara with his white cassock. The pope doesn't use the popemobile in the same way popes used the sedia gestatoria (one of the difference being the sedia allowed the faithful to see His Holiness, whereas the popemobile offers very limited visibility, and behind bulletproof glass).

Bring back the sedia! Its' a gesture of mercy towards the faithful! Unfortunately I think in the post-Ali Agca days the idea isn't the best, but that only pertains to the outside. Use the sedia inside St. Peter's!

Alexis

I haven't seen those comments, but it doesn't surprise me.

On the other hand some, like Fr. Z, are calling that event a "True ecumenical gesture".

That title first appeared in the Annuario Pontificio in 1863, so dropping it from that publication wasn't any big deal in and of itself. However, subsequent statements from the Vatican has suggested that Pope Benedict hasn't just removed it from the Annuario Pontificio, but has "retired" it.

See http://www.zenit.org/article-15594?l=english

the title may well be "obsolete" as the Zenit article put it (or perhaps merely "euro-centric")

from my point of view, keep the nice title, just tweak it to be (or mean) "Patriarch of the Latin" or perhaps in Vatican-speak "Patriarch for the Latins".

ps: hope he wears it.
if the patriarchs of Georgia and Russia and Ukraine (KP) wear the koukoulion, why can't he wear his hat?

pps: hope Patriarch Sviatoslav of the UGCC wears the koukoulion (either white or black is ok with me)

Amen, except that the loudest of my fellow 'orthodox' Rome-haters would be in league with the Afghan Taliban who destroyed the Buddahs of Bamiyon with respect to those beautiful temples and icons. Alas....

Amen, Amen, Amen !!!
Amen to every statements, especially the last two, and in a very special way, the last one.
Btw, I prefer white koukoulion over the black one. And I hope the UGCC patriarch will stop wearing those foldable mitres and vestments that are rather dull (read those plain yellow sakkos)
Sorry for my rant.

Amen! to your comments too!
Yes, the white koukoulion is the more the tradition of Ukraine (Patriarch Filaret wears a white koukoulion).

Double Amen to re the foldable mitres (what many refer to as "the K Mart Special" (apologies to KMart). They look terrible and are way more expensive than real mitres!

As to the sakkos, they are not really sakkoses. Whoever made them (who shall remain nameless) can't tell the difference between a sakkos and a deacon's stichar. (Worse they don't even know the deacon's vestment is a stichar, they think it is a "dalmatic", sigh)

Way more expensive?! What's the price range of a mitre and a foldable one?

Also, those plain yellow garments are not even worthy of being called dalmatics. The dalmatics I've seen are way more beautiful than that.

FWIT from the outside looking in, I found that Bishop Milan of Mukachevo's vestments worn in his recent youtube videos were outstanding, particularly in contrast to the style apparently preferred by the UGCC. He certainly did not seem afraid that by holding true to the venerable traditions of the eastern rite in his eparchy (the retention of such privileges being integral to the Union of Uzhorod) that he would apparently somehow be confused with his Orthodox brothers.