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How many Byzantine Catholics are using this Rosary? May we hear of your experiences with it? Who taught you to use it? Do you recite it with your families? Is it recited in your parish churches? Is it indulgenced?

>How can any Orthodox chat forum transcend the Encyclopedia of Orthodoxy put out by the Moscow Patriarchate, <<<

Father, can you reference that on the web? or e-mail me the relevant section?

I see someone provided this from the Encyclopedia -- "In accordance with a revelation of the Mother of God, the fulfillment of the Rule is more important than Akathists"

Should we laugh or cry at this?! It's shocking to me.

Please don't be upset. I never said it doesn't exist. What I don't believe is that it is well known and used by our faithful.

I use the prayer rule; and it was cited, by one of our Byzantine Catholic priests, who recently retired, as a means of prayer, during the pilgrimage, in Olympia.

Not too bad, thank God, and thank you for asking.

Bless Father!

I'm not upset at all (I take after you in this respect!).

As for what St Seraphim of Sarov said, he did say this is what the Most Holy Theotokos herself revealed to him in a private revelation.

But it is still a private revelation.

Please don't shoot the messenger here!

Alex

Bless Father!

The reference which I translate from the Russian is on page 213 of "Orthodoxy a Complete Encyclopedia" 2003, Moscow.

This is what is written on that page, beginning from the top:

"... it is very good to daily also (they talked about the Jesus Prayer, Daily Prayers etc. prior to this) recite the Rule of the Theotokos (Bogorodychnoye pravilo).

"The Rule of the Theotokos encapsulates the entire life of the Mother of God, being divided into 15 sections that recall the most important points of Her life.

"In accordance with the revelation of the Mother of God, the fulfillment of this Rule of prayer is more important than the reading of akathists etc. and who fulfills this rule lives under the special protection of the Queen of Heaven."

Then the format for the "Bogorodychnoye pravilo" is set forth.

"1) Our Father . . . 10 x Bogoroditse Divo . . . and the Troparion of the Nativity of the Theotokos.

2) Our Father . . . 10 x Bogoroditse Divo . . . and the Troparion of the Entrance into the Temple of the Theotokos

3) Our Father . . . 10 x Bogoroditse Divo . . . and the Kontakion of the Theotokos from the Akathist (re: the sorrow She felt at the death of her parents)

4) Our Father . . . 10 x Bogoroditse Divo . . . and the Troparion of the Annunciation.

5) Our Father . . . 10 x Bogoroditse Divo . . . and the prayer "Truly it is meet" in honour of the joyful meeting of the Theotokos with St Elizabeth.

6) Our Father . . . 10 x Bogoroditse Divo . . . and the Troparion of the Nativity according to the Flesh of our Lord, God and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

7) Our Father . . . 10 x Bogoroditse Divo . . . and the Troparion of the Meeting of our Lord in the Temple

8) Our Father . . . 10 x Bogoroditse Divo . . . and the Kontakion of the Theotokos from the Akathist re: the flight into Egypt.

9) Our Father . . . 10 x Bogoroditse Divo . . . and the same Kontakion from the Akathist re: the sorrowful finding of the 12 year old Lord Jesus in the Temple.

10) Our Father . . . 10 x Bogoroditse Divo . . . and the Crucifixion where the Most Holy Theotokos stood under the Cross of Her Son.

11) Our Father . . . 10 x Bogoroditse Divo . . . and the "Christ is Risen . . . 3 times and the resurrectional hymn sung in place of the "Truly it is meet" in the Paschal time.

12) Our Father . . . 10 x Bogoroditse Divo . . . and the Troparion of the Ascension.

13) Our Father . . . 10 x Bogoroditse Divo . . . and the Troparion of Pentecost.

14) Our Father . . . 10 x Bogoroditse Divo . . . and the Troparion of the Dormition.

15) Our Father . . . 10 x Bogoroditse Divo . . . and the prayer "Truly it is meet" in honour of the glorification of the Most Holy Theotokos by the Most Holy Trinity and also the Troparion of the Holy Protection.

This form of the Rule of the Theotokos has been recommended during sermons on two occasions that I can remember, it is on a UGCC website in this very format (in addition to the Catholic mysteries of the Rosary).

Again, Reverend Father, if you would like such a Lestovka, please send me a mailing address and I will only be too happy to order one for you from Diveyevo.

Alex

Bless Father!

Since you ask . . .

I rejected the Rosary in university when I entered much more fully into the spirit of Eastern Christianity.

Those whose acquaintance I made told me it was a Latinization etc.

I developed a deep love and veneration for St Seraphim of Sarov and it was in my reading about his life that I saw how greatly he was devoted to the Rule of the Theotokos. The book "Staretz Zechariah: An Early Soviet Saint" did the rest, as did the life of St Seraphim Zvezdinsky.

This was a form of the Rosary that was extant in the Russian Orthodox Church and so I returned to it with very much enthusiasm!

I go around now and try to get everyone to include it in their prayer lives . . .

So one may blame St Seraphim of Sarov for all of this . . .

I pray it as an individual and have prayed it with a group in church. Nowadays, EC's and RC's pray the rosary with all sorts of different Mysteries.

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing,

Alex

Good to see you Fr. Ambrose. May God always bless you.

Here is an Orthodox discussion on monachos.net

http://www.monachos.net/conversation/topic/6506-praying-the-rosary-attributed-to-st-seraphim/page-2

Does anyone really believe the Mother of God appeared on earth to reveal this piece of silliness? If She had done so the entire Orthodox world would have rushed to obey her.... Greeks, Russians, Arabs, Alaskans. Instead, the Orthodox world is ignorant of it and Akathists to the Mother of God resound in thousands of churches and homes every day. It's a worry if information of this quality has been included in the Encyclopaedia.

From what I have seen, there are parishes that say the Rosary prior to the Divine Liturgy. From what I have seen, it is the Latin form when in English. The Hungarians from Toledo would recite it on the bus on the way to the Otpust at shrine of Mariapocs, outside of Cleveland, OH. That was fifty years ago now, though. I do not know the form they used.

In the old molitvenniky, (Monsignor Grigassy's editions from the 1940's), some simply have Bohordice D'ivo with the end of the prayer replaced with a verse that relates to the mystery prayed. One book specifies the Latin form of the prayer (Moj Molitvennik, 1944). It begins with the Creed (form unspecified, but the Nicene Creed is the only version I have found in the book as yet), Slava: I nyni, Bohordice D'ivo (3x) then the Mysteries.

Personally, I started in the Latin Church, so my parents taught me the Latin form as used by the Marian Movement of Priests, and that is the form I use currently on my drive to and from work.

In Christ,
Adam

Bless Father Ambrose!

Well, this is a private revelation to St Seraphim. At no time does it say that akathists are useless or otherwise of no value, including Canons and other prayers.

At no time does this private revelation state that anyone should give up on akathists and canons.

At no time does this private revelation enjoin anyone to "rush" to say it.

The posters on the monachos website tend to demonstrate only that they don't know about this prayer - nothing more. And that is entirely possible and even probable.

Again, I don't know why such websites figure at all when we want to arrive at an understanding of something, in this case, spiritual.

We don't know the background of the posters, what their qualifications are to discuss this or that issue and, apart from personal bias that everyone has, there is nothing of real educational value in them.

We should consult written material and also what monasteries, like Diveyevo, have to say about such devotions if and when this is relevant (which it certainly is here).

And if the Mother of God truly did tell St Seraphim about the enduring value of her Rule of prayer, then who are we to accuse her of bad theology?

That is fine, and I won't post on this again, Father.

Alex

But we know from the 2003 Encyclopaedia you quoted that the Mother of God judges this rosary to be far more important than any Akathist.


And yes, if she truly said that [and I do not believe she did] she is guilty of bad theology.