www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology The Rule of the Mother of God

@Hieromonk Ambrose:

Good to see you posting again. I hope you are well.

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Bless Father Hieromonk Ambrose!

Forgive me, but while there are doubtless Orthodox circles where the Rule of St Seraphim to the Theotokos is not practiced, there are sources galore that present it and there are many Russian monastics in Russia (can't speak for North America) that do.

I know EC professors of theology who recite it - each has his own way of praying it just like there are many ways of praying the Rosary. In fact, ways of praying the Rosary can differ according to various Catholic religious Orders (e.g. Dominican, Servite, Carmelite etc.).

In fact, the Orthodox Rule of the Theotokos, in terms of form, is exactly like the western Rosary, except that the Mysteries to be contemplated differ slightly Again, the western Catholic rosary can have any different number of mysteries as well.

My correspondent at Diveyevo in Russia assures me the 150 Hail Mary's, interspersed with an Our Father, is recited DAILY not only by the nuns there, but also by the thousands of pilgrims who go there yearly - and they continue this practice throughout their lives. On feast days, the nuns and pilgrims at Diveyevo actually SING the 150 Hail Mary's as they walk around the monastery three times, prayer ropes and lestovkas in hand.

I just took from my bookshelf a Russian Orthodox prayerbook "Pravoslavniy Molitvoslov" with the approval-recommendation of the "Isdatelskym Sovetom Russkoy Pravoslavnoy Tserkvy" where the Rule of the Theotokos, all 15 desyatky are laid out. Each decima of Hail Mary's is preceded by a Troparion to be recited that is a reflection on the event in the life of our Lord and/or the Mother of God.

The Russian Orthodox encyclopedia, published by the Moscow Patriarchate in 2003, has the same schema of prayer laid out. More to this, St Seraphim taught that the daily recitation of this rule is MORE important to obtain the protection of the Mother of God than any other prayer to her, be it an akathist, canon or what-not. Again, I would trust the encyclopedia and other published sources with the approval of the Russian Orthodox Church above many Orthodox internet chat forums on this or any other subject.

St Seraphim Zvezdinsky prayed this Rule daily and said it was an ancient tradition of the Russian Orthodox Old Rite (in the sixth chapter of Staretz Zechariah: An Early Soviet Saint, it is said that this rule of prayer was revealed to a monk in the Thebaid in the 8th century and that, at one time, "all Christians prayed it daily.").

I've ordered a "Theotokos" lestovka from Diveyevo where they insert a copy of the Orthodox "Hail Mary" into each step for the recitation of the Rule of the Theotokos.

There are of course many Roman Catholics that don't say the Rosary and, frankly, I've never said it using my "imagination" in prayer. I have icons that depict the event/mystery to be contemplated and I use the troparia schema above with clauses inserted into each "Bohoroditse Divo."

No one is forced to use this form of prayer, of course.

I just hotly (and respectfully) contest your assertion that the Rule of the Theotokos doesn't exist (as you couldn't find it in four internet Orthodox forums you examined).

Internet forums provide great services to people. However, they are a very poor teaching resource for the most part. I belonged to one which was manned almost exclusively by converts who would definitely see the St Seraphim's Rule as a "Latinization" and would stay away from it for dear life. They had a definite anti-Western, anti-Catholic axe to grind. That is also a poor way to define what is genuinely Orthodox, in my view.

It's a good thing the Jesus Prayer isn't widely practiced in Roman Catholicisim as such converts might want to distance themselves from that Prayer as well in their desire to move away from their previous ecclesial association.

That simply isn't so, Venerable Father.

If you will go to this link: http://lestovka-diveevo.ru, there are actual pictures of hundreds of Orthodox Christians there walking the pathway around Diveyevo, reciting the Rule of the Theotokos.

But please don't take the word of this Eastern Catholic (who stopped praying the Rosary and only came back to it under the influence of writings like Staretz Zechariah et alia).

Please feel free to write Diveyevo to ask them as many questions as you like about the Rule of the Theotokos, who practices it, how widespread it is and the like.

They are very communicative and will be more than happy to provide you with all sorts of information.

Reverencing your right hand (into which I desire to place a Theotokos Lestovka), I again implore your blessing,

Alex

I'm not commenting on Father Ambrose's post, but rather noting a few thoughts from those raised by Alex regarding internet Orthodoxy.

Indeed, among the Netodox, it seems anything they hear of which they can't reference in the Rudder or Pedalion must be 'heterodox', an 'innovation' or God-forbid a 'Latinization' and therefore - must be publicly denounced, shunned, abhorred and anathamatized. But most of those overly scrupulous folks (pun intended) are converts, many of them sampling their way up the food chain from the casual(i.e. normal) Orthodox believer and local parish down the rabbit hole into the world of the mega believers. Many, sad to say, never find that spiritual fruit for which they long as they seek heaven on earth which is, after all, a very contradiction in terms.

Devotions to the Theotokos are after all much beloved among the east Slavs including the Ukrainians, Lemkos and Rusyns be they Greek Catholic or Orthodox.

I often believe in my heart that she weeps so much on account of our human inability to stop quibbling over many 'differences' which are not so much different in intent as they are merely different in expression. Form becomes worshiped over time as knowledge of the substance erodes. Its the way of mankind.

+1

You must not have looked very hard.

From the life of St Seraphim, Bisop of Dmitrov:

On July 5, 1926, he made a pilgrimage to Diveyevo. The timid abbess took fright at the unexpected arrival of the popular hierarch and began to constrain him and prevent him from performing Church services. Vladyka Seraphim suffered this for a long time, but finally by his humility and prayers he won over the abbess. And so every day he would celebrate the Liturgy behind closed doors in the underground church of the Mother of God "Console my Sorrow", praying for the monastery and his orphaned flock. After the Liturgy he would go round St. Seraphim's canal and recite "Virgin Mother of God, rejoice!", in accordance with St. Seraphim's rule, 150 times.

http://www.orthodox.net/russiannm/seraphim-bishop-and-hieromartyr-of-dmitrov-and-those-with-him.html

In the evening everyone walked along the Canal and read the prayer ”Rejoice O Virgin Theotokos” [7] one hundred fifty times, saying the ”Our Father” at every tenth with a commemoration of the living and the dead.

http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/44008.htm

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/10/holy-canal-of-theotokos-at-diveyevo.html

http://www.reu.org/public/prayers/0008.txt

Dear Father Deacon, the walking around Saint Seraphim's ditch is regarded as a pious custom or a piece of foolish superstition. Superstition because it is magical in that it is guaranteed to evoke certain spiritual blessings from God.

Has anybody laid eyes on this mysterious rosary? A prayer rope of 150 beads divided into 15 parts. There is conflicting information in the thread whether or not an Our Father is recited before each of the 15 sections.

Bless Father Hieromonk!

Not superstitious at all, Father, but a pious belief that the Mother of God has blessed this practice.

And not any more "superstitious" than any prayer to God or to the Saints that one makes in the hope of obtaining an answer or a blessing.

St Seraphim of Sarov blessed people to go to Diveyevo, take a handful of soil or a piece of wood from the place and recite 150 Hail Mary's.

Not anything more superstitious than any other shrine anywhere else in the world.

Alex

Have placed a query on two clergy lists (one Russian only) and on Orthodox-Forum. Will make a query on a Russian language forum. In the meantime, can people here please say something about the use of this rosary in the devotional lives of Byzantine Catholics. My impression from perusing this thread is that it is unknown.

Bless Father Hieromonk!

Yes, I've seen several such Lestovkas of 150 smaller steps divided every tenth with a larger for the purpose of reciting the Rule of the Mother of God.

St Seraphim of Sarov used the 109 step Lestovka and the 150 step Lestovka (in fact, the steps were divided by a space rather than a larger step, but one can obtain either at Diveyevo).

You may see some examples for yourself on the Diveyevo website. They have several examples of Lestovki. The 30 step Lestovka that fits nicely into the hand is a reminder of the 30 steps of the Ladder of Divine Ascent of St John of the Ladder.

I've ordered one from them because they include some soil/wood from the "kanavka" on which people travel.

If you like, I will order one for you from Diveyevo for your own use - please let me know if you would like one.

There is a wonderful story about an Orthodox doctor who went to Diveyevo to fulfill the rule of prayer as he walked around the kanavka.

St Seraphim of Sarov did say that if one fulfilled this rule of prayer, praying for one's relatives and friends, then afterwards one would ask for something, something they would REALLY and truly need, and it would happen.

The doctor had written out a list of things he wanted to ask for.

But as he finished the prayer rule, he was so blessed with the Presence of God that he threw away his list and asked God to even take everything he had away from him - only that God would vouchsafe him His Presence.

And this was fulfilled in his life. The Bolsheviks came and took everything he had. He came to the U.S. and lived poorly etc. But he never lost the sense of the Divine Presence as he had experienced it at Diveyevo.

I'm sorry that you appear upset by all this, Father Hieromonk! It was not my intention certainly to do so.

Please forgive me and I will not write about this again.

Kissing your right hand, I implore your blessing and forgiveness,

Alex

I have forgotten the actual belief but it guarantees you cannot lose your salvation and at your death the Mother of God will appear and you will not have to pass through the toll houses. That is the "magical" part. But we need to check I am remembering this correctly.

>I'm sorry that you appear upset by all this, Father Hieromonk>

Father, I'm O~L~D! Very little can upset me. :-)

Bless Father Hieromonk,

But wasn't the whole point that was raised, especiallsy by DMD, that forums are a poor resource for such things?

How can any Orthodox chat forum transcend the Encyclopedia of Orthodoxy put out by the Moscow Patriarchate, for one thing?

Depending on the nature of the forum and who participates on it can determine some data of sorts.

But it is hardly representative of the general Orthodox population, especially in Russia and other East Slavic Orthodox nations.

Forgive me a sinner, once again.

Alex

Please accept my spiritual bow at your feet, even from this great distance, Venerable Father!

Alex

And just before I go to bed . . .

St Seraphim of Sarov said only one Our Father at the beginning of his Rule to the Theotokos, while St Seraphim Zvezdinsky included the Our Father and the prayer "Open to us the doors of Thy Mercy . . ."

In the book on Staretz Zechariah, it is shown that some Russian Orthodox ended each decima/decade with the "Open to us the doors" prayer while beginning the decade with the Our Father.

Variety abounds, just as there are varieties of the practice of the Jesus Prayer rules in monasteries throughout Russia and Ukraine (as you know better than I).

There are also varieties of how to say the Jesus Prayer as well etc.

Kissing your right hand, I once again ask your blessing,

the sinful and disrespectful Alex