www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Holy Supper - how traditional is traditional?

There have been other threads that dealt with Holy Supper in the past. As far as I know, it is basically a Slavic tradition, largely unknown to Orthodox of other jurisdictions- Greek, Antiochean, etc. Our Ruthenian parish had a traditional Holy Supper last year (except for its being held on a Saturday night, rather than Christmas Eve). This year, there are some who would like to change the foods to be prepared, to include ethnic dishes other than Slavic, and perhaps some non-fasting foods as well. In my parish more folks fast at differing levels than you might find in, say, a ROCOR parish. (St. Philip's Fast has recommended fasting guidelines that are more flexible than most for us.) My concern is this: The further we move away from old world observances of Holy Supper, the more I feel like historic continuity is being lost, even if it is basically an ethnic tradition, not a church one. It begins to look like a potluck dinner, instead.

Anyone care to offer their take on it? Has anyone had success with changing how the supper is observed? What about the lessening of ethnic tradition?

Hi Jim

A great deal of the "tradition" depends on where your family came from.

The customs and traditions that my family follows for the Holy Supper are different from the ones followed by Diak & Alex, who post on this forum.

There are also different from the customs of other families in my church.

I have friends in a dance group and they are completely booked up for the next few weekends, do the traditional Holy Supper for various church groups. They talk about the dishes prepared and their symbolism, have the Jaslickare (Star-Carolers) come in and they share the traditional foods with all in attendance.

After the traditional foods, there is a "pot-luck" available for all to share in. I guess the "traditional" part is just enough to get a "taste".

We do have all of the "traditional" dishes from my grandmother's village but we also "adapted" or "adopted" some "American" customs to "create" a "new tradition".

Hope this helps....

mark

Jim, I share your concerns. For this one dinner, I would recommend trying to stay with the 12-dish non-meat tradition, for in that tradition there is great significance with every dish that is prepared, what order it is eaten in, fasting character of the meal, etc. This is not to be exclusive in any way, but to provide a fuller expression of the tradition for the experience of all.

Now that I have put my foot in my mouth, you will find a substantial variance where your particular traditions originate from (Slovakia, Ukraine, Russia, Byelorus, Hungary, etc. in addition to some things picked up in North America) in the 12 foods. Honey and boiled wheat (kutya/kolyvo) are common to all, as is the kolach which is not eaten until Christmas morning but a candle is put in and lit in deep remembrance of Christ and our ancestors.

As you have well observed, it can quickly dissolve into another pot luck and lose the signficance of the proximal preparation for the Incarnation of our Lord and all of the particular symbolisms which are so rich, and which must be experienced in order to pass on.

With a bit of education, the meal can be not only fellowship, but a catechetical moment as well as a glimpse into the traditions of those who preceded and built the parish. Most will be having a serious feast on Christmas Day, so one supper without meat on Christmas Eve should be possible.

Svjatiy Vecheria is far more than just another pot luck, which you can have on any Sunday or feast day with a multitude of dishes.

There are plenty of non-Slavic (Greek, Melkite, etc.) solemnities at which special foods are eaten, such as the feast on St. Basil's Day (New Year's Day) with the vasiliopita in the Greek tradition, etc. that are not fasting days and the types of foods that can be brought are not as specified as the Holy Supper. And there are many more, such as name days celebrated using the Serbian Slava tradition, etc.

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!

Diak wrote: "...Honey and boiled wheat (kutya/kolyvo) are common to all..."

This is an example of what I mean, in my family, we do not eat kutya/kolyvo; it wasn't the custom in the region where my grandmother was raised.

Diak also mentioned 12 dishes, in my Grandmother's village, they didn't do the 12 dishes.

I also think the non-food traditions are also VERY IMPORTANT as well. For example, in my family, we all wear shoes or slippers when we eat the Svati Vecer, no one is bare foot. Being barefoot is the sign of being poor and because Christ is being born on the night of the Svati Vecer, we are all RICH because of this.

We open the door and keep a light in the window so that in case the Holy Family passes by, they know there is room for them in this house, we also set an empty place at the table in case the Holy Family visits or some other un-expected "guest".

Does anyone else wrap a chain around the legs of the table to keep the bounty found on the table at the Svati Vecer stays within the home for the coming year?

Who makes babalky to serve with the sauerkraut soup? Do you take them fresh from the oven to give to the first person you meet so that they will be your friend in the coming New Year.

An example of adaptation, when my Baba was living, she was diabetic and could not eat salt. We would serve tuna fish for her because it had less salt than the sardines we eat. One of my cousin's doesn't like peas so in additon to the peas we have, we also serve corn so there will be a propserous year.

In addition to the kolach and fruits and candy, we also have a birthday cake, not only for the Baby Jesus, but for my aunt who's birthday is on the 23rd of December.

I would be interested in hearing other traditions and customs that people have for this most special night of the year!

Does anyone else keep the "goodies" on the table where the Svati Vecer is served all night in case our relatives visit from the "other side"?

It would be interesting to hear the other customs followed by people on this most special of nights.

marko

This is very true. When I asked a Slovak Greek Catholic priest friend (in NE Slovakia) years ago about kutiya he told me they didn't do that in Slovakia. I have not met a Greek Catholic from modern Slovakia who knows what it is.

I heard an englightening presentation once by Fr. Ralph Biernacki who said that the Slavs who don't (ritually) eat kutiya eat bobal'ky. That seems to hold up to scrutiny. Bobal'ky are round and made of wheat, the etymology of the name is from bob = bean, probably due to the shape.

The bobal'ky are prepared in some of the same way as kutiya (sweetened with nuts, seeds, etc). When bobal'ky is used otherwise it seems to have lost its significance as a memorial to the dead. Although at the same time bread is blessed in honor of the dead on some traditions.

Some Western Christians had a fasting meal in some places, some Italians ate baccala, salted dried cod, on Christmas eve. To make it just a pot-luck without fasting food and ritual foods and observances seems to make it no longer a "Holy Supper."

Neither my mother's or my father's family ate kutija at the Holy Supper. We have bobal'ki, either with sauerkraut (mom's side) or with nuts n' honey n' poppyseeds (dad's side). I was always told that bobal'ki is a variation of kutija, so that would explain the reason why we don't eat it (maybe).

Mark, the custom of the chain or rope around the legs of the table is quite common. My family didn't do it until several years back (maybe around 1995) when I learned of it through printed materials. One source for the explanations of such customs is the book "Vampires of the Carpathians" by Petr Bogatyrev. It is quite fascinating.

I will post about my experience of a parish Holy Supper later, when I get a moment.

Dave

Tony mentioned the Italian equivalent of the Holy Supper - but it's a lot more than cod. The Italian tradition calls for TWELVE different kinds of fish and sea food. The Italians call this the "ieiunium gaudiosum", the joyful fast, and permit eating twice the usual ration for fast days. Invite yourself if you ever get the chance; it's wonderful. So is the Italian Christmas music.
Incognitus

1) Regarding the twelve dishes, my family has a unique variation that dates back to the period of the Great Depression. During that time, my mother's maternal grandmother (I think) found it hard to afford enough food to make twelve seperate dishes. In order to keep the number twelve, she made a soup with twelve kinds of vegetables/beans/ingredients. We still do this in my family.

2) I have some experience with organizing a parish-wide, "covered dish" Holy Supper (in my case, for the eve of Theophany), and with the difficulties of keeping it "traditional." Let me outline some of the things that I did:

*I created a sign-up sheet for foods, desserts, and beverages. At the top of the sheet, I listed some of the customary foods. As the years go on, I add more and more of these foods to the list. Since there is a lot of variation in the "traditional" menu, and since not everyone is "nash" or can cook these foods, I left blank spaces for unspecified foods, the only requirement being that the foods be strict fast in nature.

*I arranged the tables in the hall into a U shape or a square, so that everyone is gathered together.

*Ritually, things are kept to a minimum. I typically play MC and offer a few words of welcome. We sing the Troparion of the Feast, the priest gives a blessing, we have a toast, break bread, and, some years, have garlic and honey. There have also been a few times when one of the parishioners, of Slovak background, brought oplatki and honey (yes, wafers at an ORTHODOX Svjatyj Vecher! :gasps: :p ). Everyone then helps themselves to the buffet-style meal.

*There are no ropes or chains (although who knows what I'll do this year), and no blessings with holy water.

*I have encouraged people during the meal to share stories about Christmas and Theophany when they were growing up, what customs they had, etc.

*After the meal, we sing the Kontakion and have a final blessing. Last year, I lead several parishioners in singing kol'ady in English and Slavonic after the supper; some people sang along, others kept chatting, and the kids just ran around playing.

Oh, the next day we bless the river, but that's another story.

Dave

Dear All,

In my family, we always celebrated Wigilia - Christmas Eve vigil supper - since my father was born in Poland and my mother is Slovak in heritage.

Traditionally, the supper is supposed to start when the first star appears in the sky, but at our house we just waited until it was definitely dark outside. I recall my parents discussing at twilight if it was time yet. The menu for Wigilia consisted of fast fare [not fast food ] with no meat being allowed. At our house, we nicknamed it "the white supper" because all the food was white or beige. We had sauerkraut with mushrooms, pierogi with potato filling, beans with garlic, and white fish, salmon loaf, and pickled herring as the main courses.

The highlight of the evening was the breaking and sharing of the Oplatek � a thin wafer of pure white flour that had the consistency of the old-time communion hosts used in the Roman Catholic church before Vatican II. What made this extra special was that my father's relatives in Poland always mailed us the oplatek. So sharing it was a way to share the meal symbolically with his family back in the old country. Even though after traveling airmail from Europe the wafer tasted about the same as the evelope it came in, it was a very special moment nevertheless!

Next, we all would go to Midnight Mass as a family. Then when we returned home - we got to eat again. This time cheese and sausage and ham and all the forbidden non-fasting foods.

Now as a monk I have different customs, but I really do miss this tradition from my family. Who knows? Maybe I could talk the kitchen-master into doing a little something along these lines. I already have gotten the junior monks to paint Easter eggs with me on Holy Saturday.

PAX

It seems to me that the use of the oplatki among Slovaks and Poles is analogous to kutiya (and bobal'ky).

I am sure there is more to it than salted dried cod. I am not of Italian background but am very fond of salted dried cod and was surprised to learn that it forms a part of the Italian Christmas eve meal.

Please tell more about the Italian Christmas eve supper and any others.

Also, how is it that in some cultures (many of them strongly RC) the biggest (non-fasting) meal is on Christmas eve? Even in the West was that not a fasting day until recently?

T

You're right, Mark, I should know better than to overgeneralize, especially when it comes to particular Slavic customs. Admittedly my experience with Rusyns is primarily Lemko and around Uzhorod, who all do generally eat kutya. Out of interest I did check with our one remaining Slovak family at our parish, and yes, they eat bolbaki instead of kutya.

We wrap string around the table legs, and we put lots of hay around the table, under, on top, etc. I feed some kutya to the livestock (wheat sweetened with honey, they love it) and carry a bowl around the house and barns singing something. It is the job of my youngest son to say "God's star shines" and then put the baby in the nativity set, and light a candle before the Nativity icon.

My wife has grown weary of the tossing the kutya on the ceiling, and I've grown weary of cleaning it up (our truce) but my sons still look forward to it.

We do keep a place set for the ancestors in case they want to stop by.

Benedictine:
� a thin wafer of pure white flour that had the consistency of the old-time communion hosts used in the Roman Catholic church before Vatican II"

You mean they still don't make host like that anymore? What do you use in your Abbey for Holy Communion?

You should have entered Holy Trinity in Butler, PA.

Since I live near Phildelphia, I know many Italians who celebrate the "Meal of the 7 fishes on Christmas Eve". Must be an Sicilian custom. I spent Christmas and Christmas Eve in Rome a couple of years ago. They didn't know what I was talking about.

Really? I always thought it went along with the Eucharistic significance of having bread and wine at the meal; those who are Orthodox or Greek Catholic have a prosphora-type loaf, and those who are Roman Catholic (and Slovak Lutheran, perhaps?) have a wafer. The Slovaks (I don't know about the Poles) will usually have a loaf of bread along with the oplatek, though, and bobal'ky as well.

Dave

For my family it's a somewhat traditional wigilia (waiting for the first star, 12 dishes, no meat, some traditional foods, etc.), but on Christmas day we eat tamales. I think my kids prefer tamales to cabbage, but they don't know I make them with venison!

Well, it seems to me. Perhaps I am wrong. I do remember having bread with the meal as well as kutiya. My conflation/extrapolation comes from seeing bread blessed instead of boiled wheat, it seems to play the same role.

Here's some links for the Italian vigil with comments on different practices and recipes for different regions:

http://www.wqed.org/mag/columns/cook/1201_cook.shtml
http://italiansrus.com/articles/7fishes.htm
http://italianfood.about.com/library/weekly/blnl093.htm
http://italianfood.about.com/library/weekly/blnl072.htm
http://www.acorn-online.com/food192.htm


And for Slovak/Rusyn practices, most folks probably know this link:http://www.iarelative.com/xmas/

One custom that we have, that no one has mentioned, is to wash our hands before dinner in a basin of water loaded with silver coins, while wishes for health and prosperity in the coming years are offered. Is this (the silver not the vinchovets) familiar to anyone?

We also tended to speak of Velija rather than Svaty Vecher.

I am curious about simple adaptations that people have made. My grandmother gathered mushrooms from the forest and dried them; they had a taste similar to cepes that I have had imported form eastern Europe. I use dried shitakes (and some fresh brown/white buttons) for my muchadlo (soup of muschroom and sauerkraut juice).

We make yellow peas. Green will not do. I found, when visiting Mal'cov that that - and the word "muchadlo" is just the way of that village.

And sauerkraut...
There was a little article in Gourmet magazine ca. 1980 about memories of Carpatho-Russian foods, with great nostalgia about home made sauerkraut. Any practitioners out there? How does it compare with commercial (in the jar) products?

I make my holupki and stuffed peppers now with buffalo rather than beef; much better for health.

Chtec,

The Eastern Slavs (Rusyns and Ukrainians) make a bread called "Krachun or Korochan", a large loaf made of flour, yeast, oil and salt. The Krachun
is broken and along with a clove of garlic, are then dipped in honey and then eaten by all. The Krachun bread is a custom from pagan times, when the Slavs celebrated the winter soltice. The "Krachun" is the name of the ancient pagan Slavic Sun deity. So I believe that the Western Slavs' usage of "oplatky" is a borowing from the Eastern Slavic Krachun tradition.

As far as the "Italiano" Vilija, my mother's family (Calabrese) use to eat a 12 coarse meal of many fish dishes, including "baccala". It was great to grow up in a "half na pol - menz a menz" family. We would first go to my Italian Uncle's restaurant and eat our Italian holy supper in early afternoon. In the early evening, my "Baba"
would then bring over her Rusyn Vilija foods (I can still remember her Lekvar pirohi!). I miss those days, it seems that no one bothers with "holy suppers" anymore and that's a real shame. So I applaud those parishes that attempt to revive this honored tradition! Smachnoho!

Ung-Certez

Ung-Certez,

I never thought of the olpatek as related to the krachun, and it's an interesting take. I've read a little bit about the krachun and the customs surrounding it, but am not too familiar with it. However, my paternal great-grandfather (from Slovakia) makes/made a bread with honey and cloves of garlic stuck on top; I suspect that it is related.

Dave

Chtec,

That would definitely be "Krachun". Your family's loaf has the "chesnok" already on the bread!

Ung-Certez

The prosphora and kutya (at least how I was taught) have different significance as Dave mentioned. The kutya has the rich symbolism of remembrance of departed ancestors, as well as the Resurrection (the grain, a tiny tomb, sprouts new life).

The prosphora adds a "eucharistic" and liturgical connection to the church services, as it was blessed previously for partaking at the Holy Supper. Perhaps sort of a faint reminder of the Old Rite practice of eating prosphora and drinking holy water after breaking the fast with prayer, and a vivid reminder of the connection of our domestic church at home with our parishes.

Ung, most Ukrainians call the bread "kolach". I've only heard Krachun used by Slovaks. In our celebration of the Holy Supper, we don't eat the kolach as it has eggs.

We make three round loaves of descending size which are stacked one on top another and topped with a beeswax candle which is lit during the dinner. The kolach is broken in the morning or later after Povecheria (Great Compline) and Liturgy to break the fast. I understand that oblong loaves are more popular on the western side of the mountains.

It seems also that borshcht may not as prominent at the Slovak Holy Supper table as with the further Eastern Slavs.

Like Ung, I applaud all that try to keep this holy tradition with whatever local or received twists that they may use. Z'Nami Boh!

Dear Mike,

Sorry I was not clear in my post. Of course as a Roman Catholic monastery we use communion breads that are unleavened wafers. Actually, these are made by the nuns who live a couple of miles from us. The difference I was trying to convey is that nowadays most hosts I encounter are made from whole wheat flour and require the communicant to chew them. I don't know if you ever experienced it, but perhaps some other members of the forum remember or know about a type of host that was popular decades ago made of highly refined white flour that would melt in your mouth.


PAX

I believe it is of Eastern Slavic origin. Even the ethnographer Mykola Musinka states in his articles about "Svjat Vecur" among Southern Lemko's of the Prjashev region and Subcarpathians, he uses the word "Korachun". The "Kolach" traditon seems to be a Central and East Ukraine tradition. He seems to be an authority about Carparthian- Rus enthographic traditions.

Ung-Certez

Mark, so you don't use a set number of dishes? That's interesting.

Probably most know but it might prove useful to mention that "Christmas" is "Karacsony" in Hungarian and "Craciun" in Romanian (the -cs- in the former and the -ci- in the latter making the hard -ch- sound as in church).

Kol�č according to the "Etymologick� Slovn�k Jazyka Česk�ho" by V�clav Machek is "tak u v�ech Slovanů; psl. kolačъ, od kolo." (Emphasis mine.) So the name kolach is due to its shape, rolled or circular. Perfectly applicable to the shape of bread mentioned above and that I have occasionally seen. The cognate in Hungarian is kalacs used for a sweet bread.

This is a link that Bill/Ghazar posted last year to an article by his pastor:
Christmas in the Armenian Christian Tradition [stjohnsarmenianchurch.org]

As to the Italian Christmas meal mentioned by Incognitus, the practice varies from place to place in Italy, explaining why Mike found it unknown in Rome. Italian friends tell me that it is a southern Italian tradition, most commonly found from Naples southward and in Sicily.

The number of fish types involved also varies considerably, ranging from 3 to 13, and virtually every number in between, although 7 is probably the number most frequently cited. The symbolism of the number is variously ascribed to the Magi (3), the Evangelists (4), the sacraments (7), the days in Genesis (7), the deadly sins (7), the Apostles (12), the Apostles plus Jesus (13).

For a couple of discussions about the tradition, see: The Christmas Eve Fish Dinner [sicilianculture.com] and The Tale of the Fishes [neuronet.pitt.edu]

While we're on the subject of Christmas, early though it is (except by retailers' standards, by which we're late :rolleyes: ), Ghazar also posted a great piece last year on Saint Nicholas versus Santa Claus

It came from a booklet titled "Religious Customs in the Family" by Father Francis X. Weiser, SJ, of blessed memory, an Austrian-born Jesuit and prolific writer on religious folklore and customs, whom I was honored both to meet as a child and to have been a student of, briefly, during college.

Another booklet by Father Weiser, the complete text of which is available online, is: The Christmas Book [library.catholic.org] . Its focus is chiefly on Western European customs, but he discusses some Ukrainian and Slavic customs in the chapter on Christmas breads.

Another of his texts, also available online in its entirety, is: Handbook of Christian Feasts and Customs [neiu.edu] . I believe it incorporates "The Christmas Book", but the subject is expanded upon and, as I recollect, this one delves further into East European customs than its predecessor.

Many years,

Neil

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!

I was just re-reading my last post and I completely forgot to mention that my Baba was Slovak Roman Catholic.

On our table we had both oplatky and a round loaf of bread. We would cut the bread and smear it with honey and garlic. We didn't bake them together.

We still look for the First Star, usually the job of the youngest person in the house, to keep them from being under-foot while the preparations we being made.

One other change that my Baba made was in the soup. Her husband was Croatian and didn't like the mushroom-sauerkraut soup. My Baba began to use scalded milk to cover the bobalky and then we sprinkle poppyseeds over the top. My Dad would never eat the milk since he was Greek Catholic and would keep the Fast. Now we serve both the mushroom soup and the scalded milk, SEPERATE NOT TOGETHER!

I've found that there a few different things associated with the word KOLACH. What I know as KOLACH are the long yeast rolls that my Baba filled with nuts or poppyseeds or lekvar or appricott. Among the Czechs, kolach are very small pastries that are filled with the same fillings mentioned above but shaped like crescent moons.

When my Baba was living, we used to eat the meal with the house being quiet, in case there was knock at the door and it was the Holy Family. These days, we have CD's of kolendy from Slovakia that we play to remind of us those beautiful hymns and songs that we used to hear but are not sung in the Cleveland area anymore...

For those who still "sit Svaty Vecer", do you permit anyone to get up from the table once Vecera has been started?

Blessings...

marko

I thought I would add a summary of what we do in our parish in terms of the ritual observances themselves during the Holy Supper.

We have a booklet for parishioners to use throughout the Holy Supper. It opens with an explanation of the table setting's symbolism- the white table cloth symbolic of Christ's swaddling clothes, hay in the center to remind of the poverty of the cave where Jesus was born, a large loaf of bread as a centerpiece symbolizing Christ as the Bread of Life, and a candle in its center to recall the Star of Bethlehem.

We pray the Our Father, then sing a Troparion. What follows is a series of prayers, each set being followed by a specific action- blessing the food with holy water, placing incense on the coal, setting of the empty chair, all holding hands, a traditional toast, tracing the cross on each other's forehead with a clove of garlic, dipping the clove in honey, bread broken and passed to each member, then sharing of the 12 foods.

After the meal, the reading of the Gospel: St. Matthew 2: 1-12, then the Troparion is repeated, carols are sung, followed by closing prayers of Thanksgiving.

It is a very meaningful, reverent evening. I am reminded of the Jewish Seder at Passover, with its ritual foods, statements, etc. It is because of the highly ritualized nature of the observance and its direct link to ancestors that I am very cautious about introducing any changes, believing that food changes need only be made after eveyone understands the real significance of the occasion, and then only as a means to make participation more fulfilling for all. Preserving the true meaning of the Holy Supper is what matters most. It's what sets it apart from all other parish dinners. If introducing different foods serves to blur the difference, it's better not to introduce them, IMHO.

Benedictine:

" . . . perhaps some other members of the forum remember or know about a type of host that was popular decades ago made of highly refined white flour that would melt in your mouth . . ."

I do remember them. If you weren't careful, they'd dissolve enough to stick to the roof of your mouth.

BOB

My Swedish family had a big feast on Christmas Eve, too. There were lots of dishes, but they did have meat. Many of the things mentioned here remind me of some of their customs. Pickled herring, creamed whitefish, homemade bread in a round loaf that they called the "hospitality loaf" all had their places.

This last reminds me of pictures I see of people greeting their bishops. My grandmother, of blessed memory, told me that in Sweden when she was growing up--turn of the last century--every guest was greeted with a hospitality loaf and a new one was baked each Saturday with the rest of the bread and rolls they baked for the week. To greet a guest at your door without a hospitality loaf was the equivalent of saying, "hit the road, Jack, you're not welcome here." She always had this type of round loaf in her house until she could no longer bake bread for herself.

BOB

I'm in Jim's parish and we've brought the Holy Supper to a more proximation of what we did living with Baba -- which was a pious, reverent dinner where we all dressed in Sunday/Holiday best and children were expected to have "prince and princess manners". But of course with the variety of ethnic backgrounds (we have Italian, French Canadian, Iraqi, Lebanese, German, Irish, and South African, to name a few!) and parental/family values we're bound to step on somebody's toes. Here are some the traditions, superstititons we did when I was little and I still do with my family:

--

oops, fat fingers.

-- wait for the first star (the youngest's job)
-- dress for dinner and no, nobody gets up or leaves before the final prayer, except to stand to pray.
-- a candle in the window (electric, of course so you don't start a fire) to let strangers know they are welcome
-- hay on the tablecloth to represent the manger
-- white candle in the middle of the table for the Christ child
-- an empty place setting to represent those who cannot be with us (living or deceased); also a representation that you've included Christ!
-- the mother dips the garlic in honey and makes the sign of the cross on each person's forehead starting with the oldest marriageable-age daughter.
-- reading of the Tropar & Kontakian & The Our Father
-- the 12 foods representing the 12 apostles (and , yes, I attended a Seder once and was amazed at the similarity!)
-- a toast of non-alocoholic wine and/or a sip of brandy (depending on which Baba's house I was in! LOL)
-- feed the animals tablescraps so they can participate in the meal (they were the first to see Jesus so are very important this night).

We didn't tie the table legs together, but I think we just might have to try that this year for our church's Holy Supper!

http://www.wirnowski.com/Carp/Nat_HolyNight.html

Bob, how about ludefisk? I've only looked at it, never tried it.

Diak:


Lutefisk is good stuff. Don't ever pass it up. In fact, if I'm behind you in the buffet line and you pass it up, it won't be there if you come back for seconds!

My grandmother also made something she called "fruit soup," a stewed collection of dried fruits--peaches, pears, raisins, apples, and some kind of little red addition that reminded me of fish eggs in size, but sweet.

But cut me some slack here. My family hasn't gathered for this type of Christmas Eve feast for the last 40 years. Maybe I'll call some of my cousins and see if they have any of the recipes since my Dad, his oldest brother, and his sisters are all dead save one sister who doesn't cook anything ethnic.

BOB

I've heard that called "kompot" as in compote.

Bob,

"My grandmother also made something she called "fruit soup," a stewed collection of dried fruits--peaches, pears, raisins, apples, and some kind of little red addition that reminded me of fish eggs in size, but sweet."

Pomegranate seeds?

In Christ,

John Segvich

I had to revive this post to reply to djs:

Yes my family always did that. This year I made a basin and put in U.S. quarters as well as whatever change we had lying around from other countries. The idea was to say a prayer for the whole world not just our own prosperity. We had several guests at Svati Vecher with us and they happily went along with all our traditions. It was really great.

I miss the dried mushrooms my Dyedo would gather from the woods by Harvey's Lake in PA. I make a stewed mushroom dish with bought dried and fresh mushrooms. A lot more variety is available today than in the past.

I would love to get that article!
My aunt taught me to make the "zaprashka" to mix into the cooking sauercraut. Ever heard of that?

with love and peace,
Nonna

Dear Nonna,

Thanks for reviving this thread. In the midst of the busy holiday season, I somehow missed it.

I found all the traditions and memories shared by posters here to be very interesting.

God bless,
Alice

Benedictine:

" . . . perhaps some other members of the forum remember or know about a type of host that was popular decades ago made of highly refined white flour that would melt in your mouth . . ."

Yes, I do remember the whtie refined flour hosts. I have received the whole wheat one too. They are very thin too. While in the Air Force in the early 70's I was stationed near St. Martin's Abbey near Lacey, WA. They used leavened bread, and broke it into pieces like we do in the Eastern Churches, and had Communion in the hand then too. I look on other Catholic forums and see that some parishes use illegal forms of bread for Communion. That is why I asked the question.

Dear Nonna:
Thank you for your reply! I am so glad to hear that others keep this tradition; I wonder about its origins and locality. Sorry, I couldn't find the Gourmet article on line, but I'll continue trying; it's just a page but quite a reverie.
"Zaprashka" is widely known (google it), but I confess that I was never much good with any kind of flour thickeners. Our innovation, along with the dried shitakes, is to use cornstarch as a thickener - and the soup takes on a glistening sheen.

Dear DJS,

You sound like quite the good cook!

You truly are full of surprises!

Alice

Mike,
Regarding your post from 2004 about the 7 fishes being Sicilian...there is a fish store smack in the middle of the Italian Market that combines '7 fishes' into a fish sausage link for Christmas.
Something different to try for our multi-ethnic Velijas!
Sam

That certainly makes the dinner of the seven fishes much, much easier to prepare for the modern American woman of Southern Italian descent!