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Mar 25th, 2025
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Re: Prayers for conversion
EasternChristian19
Yesterday at 05:24 PM
Well this is a prayer thread I didn't want it to turn into a debate thread. Without going into it much further the issues I have are with the heresy of papal supremacy (the Pope is not infallible by himself, no such thing as speaking dogmatically ex cathedra and the pope has never held universal jurisdiction over the entire church, something Rome admits herself in several documents that can be read on the vatican website).
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Re: US Diplomacy: An embarrassment
Roman
Yesterday at 01:24 PM
U.S. President Donald Trump has privately made it clear to his aides that he will not resume providing military aid and intelligence to Ukraine even if Kyiv and Washington sign a minerals deal, NBC News reported on March 9, citing an unnamed Trump administration official and another American official. Trump resumed providing military aid and intelligence a few … EXPAND ▼U.S. President Donald Trump has privately made it clear to his aides that he will not resume providing military aid and intelligence to Ukraine even if Kyiv and Washington sign a minerals deal, NBC News reported on March 9, citing an unnamed Trump administration official and another American official. Trump resumed providing military aid and intelligence a few days later. He is now abrogating the free trade deal he agreed to a few years ago with Canada and Mexico. He is not respecting the US pledge made to Ukraine when it gave up its nuclear arms. yet He wants to make deals with Ukraine. One has to really be naive to believe he'll respect any deal he makes. COLLAPSE ▲
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Re: Prayers for conversion
Adamcsc
Yesterday at 11:54 AM
Except it doesn't. Orthodox theologians teaching the possibility of universalism in one direction, and teaching that Catholic baptism are invalid (this is especially true in the russian orthodox church, and also quite recent) in the other. Sounds to me like Orthodoxy has its own problems. So, I think accusing Rome of "possibly" being heretical is really unfounded. Some bishops might be, but so … EXPAND ▼ what?
I'll pray for you, but I WON'T pray for you to be confirmed that I'm possibly a heretic.
I've noticed you didn't say what those heresies WERE.
Prayers for you, but not your confirmation bias. COLLAPSE ▲
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Re: US Diplomacy: An embarrassment
Adamcsc
Yesterday at 11:49 AM
Know what makes me angry, is the IMMENSE amount of research I've done on this topic, and the fact that it's STILL a political thing in the United States. Did you know that Putin didn't use NATO as an excuse to invade Crimea? Did you know Putin agreed to Ukraine's borders in 2003? Did you know Putin says he didn't agree to the Minsk Agreements, even though you can literally find video of him doing … EXPAND ▼ just that? Did you know that, in 2008, Putin said "Crimea is not disputed territory"?
https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-crimea-ukraine/26942862.html
Why does everyone want to make Ukraine a political thing?
I'm a conservative, registered Republican, even.
But I've read (sometimes in my very limited Ukrainian), The Budapest Memorandum, The 1997 Friendship Treaty, and the 2003 Border Treaty. Not to mention, the results of the vote of the 1991 Ukrainian Declaration of Independence. And I have ALWAYS been suspicious that Crimea "voted" to be part of Ukraine...especially since Igor Girkin (sorry if I spelled that wrong), admitted that members of the Crimean Verkhovna Rada (parliament) were taken at gun point, and FORCED to approve the "annexation". And I remember, at the time, western media (at least in the United States) just unquestionably accepting Russia's version of the story.
And it's not Ukraine that would be responsible for World War III, it's Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea.
I see a HUGE hypocrisy in alleged China hawks in the US acting like Russia is somehow the good guy, when China provides Russia with equipment and weapons (and Iran and North Korea CERTAINLY provide Russia with weapons).
Oh, yet I'm told Russia is a Christian country (with atheist communists and Islamic theocratic allies)?
As for Ukraine persecuting the UOC-MP, it's still legal in Ukraine.
Strange how the "Catholic" Vance never discusses Eastern Catholics (or for that fact, any other Catholic, there are Latin Catholics in Russia, but they can't evangelize) being persecuted in Russia and occupied Ukraine.
That strikes me as hypocrisy. And, it reminds me of what Pope Francis said, "Let us not be hypocrites".
I apologize for such an emotional (but logical, they don't have to contradict)! Response, but, people turning this into a political thing is a huge annoyance of mine.
Anyway, I just wanted to get all these grievances out of the way, because it seems like there is a serious research problem (Like Rick Grennell not understanding the USSR wasn't just Russia...) COLLAPSE ▲
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St. Volodymyr Parish Established in the Chicago Eparchy
Adamcsc
Yesterday at 11:27 AM
From the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, St. Volodymyr Parish Established in the Chicago Eparchy "On March 22, 2025, the parish of St. Volodymyr was officially established at St. Volodymyr’s Church in Santa Clara, California. Parishioners, together with church administrator Fr. Roman Bobesiuk, Fr. Denys Smoliarsky, and Deacon Oleh Zatvarsky, solemnly welcomed Bishop Venedykt Aleksiichuk of the … EXPAND ▼ Eparchy of St. Nicholas in Chicago. They greeted the bishop with bread, salt, and flowers as a sign of respect and spiritual unity." St. Volodymyr Parish Established In Chicago Eparchy [ugcc.ua]
It's nice to see good news! I don't live anywhere near California (nor do I plan to), but, it's nice to see out east, out west. I actually had the privilege of getting to know a priest (now a Hieromonk) who is based in a different part of California, when he was in Augusta, Georgia.
So, I am aware that the Eastern Church already has a presence there. But, California is a big state. I'd imagine some people still have to go quite the distance to find the nearest Eastern Catholic (or, in some cases, even Eastern Orthodox) temple.
I just felt like sharing good news, you know? COLLAPSE ▲
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Re: Status of Revised Divine Liturgy in 2024
EasternChristian19
03/26/25 02:24 PM
Regardless of its orthodoxy or heterodoxy the Latin Church did not have the authority to unilaterally alter the creed and Rome MUST return to the actual creed. It is rightly called the Symbol of Faith in the Orthodox/Byzantine Catholic tradition. How can we say we have the same faith when we don't even recite the same creed? This is double for me as a Ruthenian since our church continues to use an … EXPAND ▼ adulterated creed that was altered to appease feminists. Getting rid of "For us men and for our salvation" changed to "For us and for our salvation" all to appease feminists who were triggered that the word "men" was used and it excluded women. Lord have mercy! COLLAPSE ▲
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Re: Belarusan Catholic Church
Roman
03/26/25 01:29 PM
from the Holy See Bulletin: Appointment of apostolic nuncio in Belarus
The Holy Father has appointed the Reverend Msgr. Ignazio Ceffalia, nunciature counsellor, as apostolic nuncio in Belarus, at the same time elevating him to the titular see of Fiorentino, with the dignity of Archbishop.
Curriculum vitae
Msgr. Ignazio Ceffalia was born in Palermo on 28 April 1975. He was ordained a priest on 6 … EXPAND ▼from the Holy See Bulletin: Appointment of apostolic nuncio in Belarus
The Holy Father has appointed the Reverend Msgr. Ignazio Ceffalia, nunciature counsellor, as apostolic nuncio in Belarus, at the same time elevating him to the titular see of Fiorentino, with the dignity of Archbishop.
Curriculum vitae
Msgr. Ignazio Ceffalia was born in Palermo on 28 April 1975. He was ordained a priest on 6 August 2003, and incardinated in the eparchy of Piana degli Albanesi.
He graduated in canon law.
He entered the Holy See diplomatic service on 1 July 2006, and has served in the apostolic nunciature in Ecuador, Thailand, the Permanent Mission to the Council of Europe in Strasbourg, the Section for Relations with States and International Organizations of the Secretariat of State, and finally in Venezuela.
He knows Albanian, French, English and Spanish. Seems to me that it is taken for granted that he knows Italian COLLAPSE ▲
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Prayers for conversion
EasternChristian19
03/25/25 08:52 PM
I am like many others I've seen here and elsewhere who seem to be perpetually caught between Byzantine Catholicism and Orthodoxy. I don't know which is the true church and can't seem to discern my way through it, finding my convictions keep leaning one way and then another. It would be "easier" to remain Byzantine Catholic since that is what my family is and my going to Orthodoxy may cause … EXPAND ▼ problems down the road. However I am 99.999% intellectually convinced that Rome teaches heresies/errors that invalidate her claims of supremacy and infallibility. And acknowledging these historical errors for the facts they are makes it feel like remaining in communion with Rome to be to live with cognitive dissonance. It is very frustrating as all I want is to be in the true church and to have the confidence and peace that I have made the right choice.
Thanks in advance for your prayers. God bless. COLLAPSE ▲
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Re: Ukrainian Catholic Major Archbishop Shevchuk Comments
EasternChristian19
03/25/25 08:48 PM
Can we not acknowledge even here on a specifically Byzantine Catholic forum, that Patriarch Shevchuk is indeed a PATRIARCH? Rome continues to disrespect the UGCC by referring to its Patriarch as a mAjOr aRcHbIsHoP in their efforts to appease the Russian Orthodox Church/Patriarch Kirill. We do not need Rome to recognize Patriarch Shevchuk for him to be acknowledged as Patriarch. To my knowledge … EXPAND ▼ all of the Eastern Catholic heads refer to him as a Patriarch. So let's give his office the respect it deserves, yes? COLLAPSE ▲
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Re: Status of Revised Divine Liturgy in 2024
Erik Jedvardsson
03/24/25 11:58 PM
The Filioque was added to the Latin creed by the Third Council of Toledo led by Saint Leander in 589 in Spain, and was later adopted in Gaul during the reign of Saint Clovis and in Britain at the Council of Hatfield in 680 led by Saint Theodore. Personally, I believe that the best thing to do is for us Latins to pray as our Greek and Eastern brothers do, as we have received from our Doctors, without arguing over the other's usage.
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Re: Orthodox Saints in byzantine catholic churches
EasternChristian19
03/24/25 10:23 PM
That said I "do" believe it weird how we promote Orthodoxy so much. Our gift shops are full of Orthodox icons, books from Orthodox saints and monastics, we adopt Orthodox spirituality, etc All coming from people who would not even view us as Christians since we are outside the Orthodox Church. Some of those we call saints were unapologetic in their condemnations of the heresies of Rome/"papism" … EXPAND ▼ as they'd call it. It's weird for us to cling to that and still maintain communion. Why venerate a saint who doesn't view us as being inside the church? If we want to venerate them, why not return to communion with them? COLLAPSE ▲
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Re: Prayers for my soliosis
theophan
03/24/25 08:52 PM
Christ is in our midst!!
Francis W.,
Have your physicians suggested surgery to straighten your spine? I have heard of successful results from such attempts.
Meanwhile prayers go up for the easing of your pain.
Bob
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Re: Question related to
EasternChristian19
03/24/25 03:56 PM
As long as they do it out of sight of everyone else, so as not to become a distraction/spectacle, then sure. Although there is a difference insofar that Rome allows all manner of variation whereas the Byzantine churches do not. On the Lord's Day we stand for prayer and never kneel per canon 20 of the First Holy and Ecumenical Council of Nicaea. Rome allows standing, kneeling, communion by one or … EXPAND ▼ both kinds, in the hand or on the tongue, etc. So there's room for us to express ourselves as Byzantine Catholics without "breaking the rules" (for lack of better words) whereas the Latin practice does not enjoy that same luxury with our "rules". COLLAPSE ▲
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Re: Question about CIA revelations
EasternChristian19
03/24/25 03:53 PM
I believe Jay Dyer has them linked on his x account (I first became aware of them on a livestream he did talking about the CIA leaks around JFK). I don't take Jay as Gospel by any means but he is far more intelligent than his critics let on and he almost always does a good job of citing his sources. I just had the stream on as background noise while I was doing laundry over the weekend and going … EXPAND ▼ about the house. I would think if it were proven to be true, that the CIA elected certain popes via their influence who would fit their secularist (and particularly anti communist) agenda, then this would invalidate their pontificates. Especially how drastically the Latin Church has changed since John XXIII opened Vatican II. It would call literally everything into question from Vatican II on. And it would also, in my personal opinion, explain a great deal about the general decline of the Latin Church since Vatican II. COLLAPSE ▲
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Re: Question related to
Hutsul
03/24/25 01:03 PM
Hey I just joined the forum so I am obviously late to this discussion. But what our family does is just stand in the back of the parish where we won't become a spectacle to others. We make metanies and don't kneel or genuflect for anything. We are Byzantine no matter where we are. And 99% of Roman Catholics need to learn that we Hey I just joined the forum so I am obviously late to this discussion. But what our family does is just stand in the back of the parish where we won't become a spectacle to others. We make metanies and don't kneel or genuflect for anything. We are Byzantine no matter where we are. And 99% of Roman Catholics need to learn that we Eastern Catholics exist so I don't see a need to "do as the romans do". I assume this means you would you find it acceptable to Roman Catholics to come to your church and kneel on the floor during the Anaphora, since they are Romans no matter where they are? Personally, I don't really mind what other people do anywhere as long as they are reverent. But there are many who would prefer for others to "blend in" as far as possible out of respect for the location in which they are a guest. ********* Plus.....we should ask ourselves in real sincerity....is our main purpose in attending "to.participate in communal worship?" or....... "to prove a point?" And the answer to that question can be our guide. COLLAPSE ▲
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Re: Question about CIA revelations
Erik Jedvardsson
03/24/25 12:27 PM
The idea that secular governments interfere in the election of the Pope has never been new, as in the case of Pope St. Martin and Pope St. Liberius. The Byzantine Emperors and the German Emperors sometimes openly interfered in the election of the Pope, and there have always been factions with political interests and other purposes in the conclaves (remember when Blessed Pius IX was elected, or … EXPAND ▼ the election of Leo XIII and St. Pius X). But the manner in which the Pope is elected is also subject to God's will and divine purposes, and the person of the Pope is guided by the Holy Spirit in any case.
As for papal infallibility, this is a dogma that has been taught for a long time and is not an obstacle to relations between the Roman Church and the Eastern Churches and other Christian groups (Blessed Leonid Feodorov even addressed this subject in lectures with Russian priests and had no difficulties). I believe that the greatest difficulty is that many groups of Catholics want the Pope to be infallible according to their tastes, and they forget that papal infallibility serves to express the teachings of the Catholic Church according to Sacred Scripture and the Holy Fathers, and not to approve or condemn what we like or dislike. COLLAPSE ▲
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Re: Question about CIA revelations
Hutsul
03/23/25 02:42 PM
Your points are well taken. There is always room for a scholarly discussion about the role of Rome and St. Peter' primacy in the early Church, and it is always revealing on many levels. However, this thread begins with a "revelation" of secular medeling by a U.S. government entity, into the Vatican, and it's choice of Popes. I would like to read these documents in order to establish whether there … EXPAND ▼ is any truth to this assertion...... or to determine whether this is yet another conspiracy theory meant to sow mistrust in governments and/ or the Church.
So, where can we find links to this? COLLAPSE ▲
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Re: Question about CIA revelations
Michael_Thoma
03/23/25 04:35 AM
To be completely fair, I doubt papal infallibility as defined by VC1 is truly accurate. There's no historic or Patristic justification for the extreme ultramontanism some Latins profess, especially from the "trad" circles. The irony is that they profess ultramontanism while denouncing the current office holder for not being traditional enough. As an Oriental, I totally agree with all of the … EXPAND ▼ examples presented by the fathers on the unique place of St Peter and his successors, however the question lies in the limits and whether that elevated succession is truly in Rome or Antioch (or Alexandria). I would suggest St Peters authentic See is actually Antioch, as even Rome acknowledges to this day the Feast of the Chair, which is the founding of the See of Antioch. In addition, as controversial as it is, it could be argued that Rome was founded by two, St. Paul as the Apostle to the Gentiles, and Simon the Magus the false teacher. St Peter later traveled to correct the errors of Magus and later there under arrest, but his actual See by choice after leaving Jerusalem was Antioch. COLLAPSE ▲
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Re: Question about CIA revelations
Hutsul
03/23/25 01:17 AM
Some of the classified documents being de-classified and released by the Trump administration show how the CIA had assets in place in the Vatican to manipulate the elections of Pope John XXIII and Paul VI (working in their favor to help them get elected for their own geo-political reasons). What would this mean for the supposed infallibility of the Popes? If … EXPAND ▼Some of the classified documents being de-classified and released by the Trump administration show how the CIA had assets in place in the Vatican to manipulate the elections of Pope John XXIII and Paul VI (working in their favor to help them get elected for their own geo-political reasons). What would this mean for the supposed infallibility of the Popes? If CIA can get popes of their choosing elected it throws a real big question mark up on the idea of papal infallibility. I'm not mistaking infallibility for impeccability so that's not the question/argument I'm getting at. I just don't know what this will mean for us as Byzantine Catholics. Do we return to Orthodoxy? Do we remain in communion with Rome but reject papal infallibility (which we should already be doing)? What are your thoughts? ********** Could you please provide links so that we may read the documents that " show how the CIA had assets in place to manipulate the elections" of those two Popes. Your comments are pretty serious.....I for one, would like to read the source material. Thanks COLLAPSE ▲
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Re: Status of Revised Divine Liturgy in 2024
theophan
03/23/25 12:26 AM
Christ is in our midst!! I believe this is NO theological justification for adding to the Creed after its final version was made those many centuries ago. Let everyone modify it as he wills and we no longer have a common statement of what we believe today or how we are related to those who have gone before. My father, no theologian, once told me that "a man is a success if he can face the Lord and … EXPAND ▼ confess that he received the Faith, lived it, and passed it along WITHOUT adding to it or subtracting from it."
BTW, the filioque is not the only addition of Charlemagne's theologians. "God from God" in the early sentences about Christ are also their work. COLLAPSE ▲
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Re: Status of Revised Divine Liturgy in 2024
EMagnus
03/23/25 12:17 AM
That is also my understanding. What bothers me the most is that there is no theological justification given for removing the word. If you're going to be altering the traditional language of the creed, I think you ought to have some burden to prove that it is theologically necessary to better convey some truth in the original.
Regardless of where you come out on the Filioque, there is at least some theological reasoning given for its addition, not simply stating that it sounds better.
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Re: Question about CIA revelations
theophan
03/22/25 04:03 PM
Christ is in our midst!! I take the position that the Holy Spirit can use whatever He wishes to accomplish the purposes He has in the Plan for the salvation of us all. Just like the recent revelations of how a group of cardinals schemed to get Pope Francis on St. Peter's throne, I am not moved. Regardless of who sits on the papal throne, the Holy Spirit protects the Church as Christ promised. The … EXPAND ▼ gates of Hell will not prevail against her. I believe that as long as one person keeps the Faith inviolate in his heart and by his actions, the wrath of God will not blaze up and bring the Final Judgment. When the last person loses it, the mountains will melt like wax and fill in the lowly places, and the whole earth will become one vast plain. Then, St. Ephraim the Syrian says, we will all be brought naked to stand before Christ to have the reckoning of our deeds. COLLAPSE ▲
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