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Re: Divine Liturgy subtle changes
Blessed Theodore
04/29/25 03:18 PM
This is my very first post, so pls be patient. I have a question that I can't find an answer for. I grew up in the Byzantine rite, went to catholic school, married, had my children chrismated. I stopped going to liturgy for over 15 years but came back and rejoined my parish. I've noticed changes to the liturgy. The biggest two, referring to Mary as Theotokis and standing … EXPAND ▼ This is my very first post, so pls be patient. I have a question that I can't find an answer for. I grew up in the Byzantine rite, went to catholic school, married, had my children chrismated. I stopped going to liturgy for over 15 years but came back and rejoined my parish. I've noticed changes to the liturgy. The biggest two, referring to Mary as Theotokis and standing through the entire liturgy. I was taught to kneel during the consecration and communion. I was never taught to call Mary Theotokis. I had to Google the meaning. There are also small variants in some prayers and the tones of hymns have dramatically changed. I thought I lost it until I found my old school liturgy book to confirm what I knew. Could someone pls be kind enough to answer my question? Sorry for the long post. Thank you. AnnaG, Christ is Risen! “Theotokos” is a Greek word that means “Birthgiver of God.” Our Church Slavonic translation is “Bohorodice.” Some of the very earliest translations used “Birthgiver of God” but this term was found to be inelegant, so most Greek Catholics started using the term “Mother of God.” It is not a literal translation, but it was perfectly understandable and allowed most English speakers to find that relationship with her. Others seemed to consider the use of the term “Mother of God” as a translation for “Theotokos” unacceptable. It seems they fall into two camps. Some consider the use of the term “Mother of God” to be unacceptable because it is a non-literal translation. Others simply think that using the Greek word “Theotokos” to be somehow more Eastern. There seems to be no consideration that Americans simply do not know this Greek word. No official reason was given for the change. And no education was given at all about the revisions to the Divine Liturgy. Kneeling in the Christian East is more an act of penance than it is humility. In the Christian West it is more an act of humility than it is penance. So in the Roman Catholic Church they kneel on Sundays during the Eucharistic Prayer as an act of humility before God. But since in the Christian East kneeling was more an act of penance and Sundays were day on which we celebrate the resurrection, kneeling was not done since it was a time to replace penance with joy. Byzantine Catholics were caught between both worlds and adopted kneeling as a sign of humility. Today the trend is towards standing on Sundays. miloslav_jc provided some good links to read. The changes to the music are much more complicated to explain. The revised texts for the Divine Liturgy meant new music books. A cantor from Philadelphia (now deceased) updated the existing settings from 1965 that you probably remember just enough to accommodate the revised texts, but he left any hymn where the texts did not change alone. However, the bishops (through the seminary) instead chose to hire someone to “restore” them to a standard from 1906. The problem with this is that Ruthenians in the United States brought with them slightly different melodies that became the norm here in our parishes. And the process for this new setting of liturgy text placed the preservation of the 1906 melodies over modern American English accentuation. Plus, if you compare any two pieces (from the 1965 and 2007 settings) where the melody and text have not changed, you can find change for change’s sake. This has resulted in clunky music that is no longer as fun to sing. The 2007 settings come across as if English is not our native language. That's really a shame. TR COLLAPSE ▲
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Re: Eastern prayer at Papal funeral
theophan
04/29/25 01:24 PM
Christ is in our midst!!
From my experience, a private ceremoy makes a lot of sense. The space surrounding the tomb seems small compared to the space(s) that might have been available in the areas under St. Peter's Basillica.
I doubt if the "private ceremony" was about his family. I imagine it was similar to the interment/entombment of other popes. The spaces beneath St. Peter's can't be large enough for big groups.
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Serious Question- Easter Churches growing?
EasternLight
04/28/25 01:27 PM
Hello everyone,
I am a Western Catholic by birth, but I greatly respect and have attended many Byzantine (Ruthenian) liturgies and I've noticed around Pittsburgh, PA that it seems like there's a been a decline in numbers over the years. Is anyone else noticing this too? Cleveland?
I'm curious to know where the light of the East is spreading at?
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Re: Question about CIA revelations
EasternLight
04/28/25 01:06 PM
Some of the classified documents being de-classified and released by the Trump administration show how the CIA had assets in place in the Vatican to manipulate the elections of Pope John XXIII and Paul VI (working in their favor to help them get elected for their own geo-political reasons). What would this mean for the supposed infallibility of the Popes? If … EXPAND ▼ Some of the classified documents being de-classified and released by the Trump administration show how the CIA had assets in place in the Vatican to manipulate the elections of Pope John XXIII and Paul VI (working in their favor to help them get elected for their own geo-political reasons). What would this mean for the supposed infallibility of the Popes? If CIA can get popes of their choosing elected it throws a real big question mark up on the idea of papal infallibility. I'm not mistaking infallibility for impeccability so that's not the question/argument I'm getting at. I just don't know what this will mean for us as Byzantine Catholics. Do we return to Orthodoxy? Do we remain in communion with Rome but reject papal infallibility (which we should already be doing)? What are your thoughts? This is a crack pot theory promoted by people that don't like Vatican 2, Pope Francis, and it means nothing for the Byzantine Catholics because every Pope since 1958. Sedevacantism is an insane theory that has no logical backing to it. The church would cease to exist...this idea that the CIA has any control over the Catholic church's leadership is also silly. COLLAPSE ▲
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Re: Pope Francis passed away
Hutsul
04/24/25 09:04 PM
I'm surprised about the quite positive RISU write-up as there were many Ukrainians that "had issues" with Pope Francis. These include the meeting in Cuba with the Moscow Patriarch and the many pronouncements about peace (as opposed to just peace) with Russia. Perhaps RISU decided that it should pay respects to the spiritual leader of the Catholic Church without bringing up negative, or controversial things, at this solemn time of mourning.
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Laptop freezes
theophan
04/24/25 05:11 PM
Christ is in our midst!!
This is not a topic related to the forum, but I need some help. I have a Lenovo laptop that freezes without warning if I step away for even a few minutes. I have to do a hard shutdown and wait for it to reboot in order to get back to work. When this happens, whatever data I was working on is lost.
Any thoughts?
Bob
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Re: Prayers for my soliosis
Adamcsc
04/22/25 06:32 PM
My next to youngest sister has severe scoliosis and has had several surgeries. If you can get it, a surgery might be worth looking into. Christ is risen! And you have my prayers
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Re: Prayers for conversion
EMagnus
04/18/25 01:42 AM
I went Catholic, just FYI. It was more about coming to terms with some of my own flaws. I had to recognize the following: 1) Hyper-focusing on this issue was actually preventing me from advancing in the spiritual life. So I needed to choose a home even without having ultimate certainty. It required humility for me to admit that. 2) Lots of scholarly minds that are eminently more intelligent than I … EXPAND ▼ am disagree about this issue. You aren't going to find crushing arguments on one side or another. I can't expect I'll find or devise an answer that has 100% epistemological certitude.
3) Catholics and Orthodox have a lot of the same problems. A lot of the time, I simply had the perception that the grass was greener on one side or the other, when that's not the case in reality. Again, that requires humility to admit.
4) I've been able to see more unifying trends in the various apostolic traditions over time. I think reading the Church Fathers was extraordinarily helpful in this. As such, being inside a Church that is in communion with all the apostolic traditions means a lot to me.
And I've accepted not being 100% sure, in the same way I've accepted that I can't be 100% sure of my salvation. The choice wasn't purely arbitrary; I do think the Catholic Church is the one Christ founded. I can discuss, give my perspective, and present my conclusions for why I think this is correct. But I am working with the evidence that I was given to the best of my ability. I do not condemn those in the Orthodox Church who may have a different perspective. They will answer for themselves on Judgment Day. May the Lord have mercy on us all.
As for the actual process? I was following a Spiritual Father's recommendation. In additional to the usual (participating in liturgical life of the Church, regular Communion/Confession, Morning and Evening prayer rule), I had some dedicated time for the Jesus Prayer with this intention in mind. COLLAPSE ▲
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Review of Liturgical Calendars - 2025 & 2026
Administrator
04/17/25 06:26 PM
I had a report of a typo in the 2025 Liturgical Calendar, fixed it and took the opportunity to put up the 2026 liturgical calendar.
If anyone has a chance, can you please review them for accuracy and report to me any typos (either her or via email at the address at the bottom of this page).
You can find them from byzcath.org by boing to "Resources" and choosing them from the pull-down menu.
Thanks!
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Re: Practicing Byzantine Spirituality W/out a Parish
bwfackler
04/11/25 05:32 PM
It should still be active on the Google Play store. I use the app daily. I also still get daily emails with the vespers and little hours texts from EC Pubs. They did recently send out an email saying it may be closed down soon though: BDO Might Stop We thank those who have contributed to our publication of the Byzantine Daily Office, both one-time and ongoing stipend payments. But we have received … EXPAND ▼ less than half of the cost of ongoing publication and are losing nearly $500/month. After nearly 10 years, this is no longer sustainable and will impact both the daily email service and smartphone app. If we don't have an influx of financial support by April 15, we will need to reduce the service or cancel it completely. You can contribute through our GoFundMe campaign (ECPubs) or directly on our website:
https://ecpubs.com/product-category/stipend-payments/
Thanks!
Sincerely,
Jack Figel Eastern Christian Publications COLLAPSE ▲
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Books to aid parents in rearing children
Carson Daniel
04/05/25 12:33 PM
My first book has been published. It is designed to help families guide their children in God's ways. Carson D. Lauffer, "The Healing of a Soul" can be purchased through Amazon. I recommend it for use in every Church. We anticipate starting a Zoom group that will utilize this book for young families and friends of these young families. We hope it will A. Aid all in rearing their children in God's … EXPAND ▼ ways. B. Bring new families to the Church. Any advice is most welcome.
Moreover, do you have other ways to suggest for helping young families or any other books we may find helpful? COLLAPSE ▲
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Zoom prayers
Carson Daniel
04/05/25 12:24 PM
We have many young families in our Church and several single, primarily men, who may someday be married and have children. I will be teaching them how to pray and hope to utilize Zoom. I wish to focus on intercessory prayers for friends, family, and neighbors who may not yet be followers of Christ or attend Church. We plan to have weekly Zoom meetings at which we can use parts of the Prayers for … EXPAND ▼ Vespers. We will most likely meet around 9 p.m. after the children have gone to bed. May we use parts of the prayer of Vespers without doing a disfavor to the prayers. We wish to use the prayers of intercession followed by "Lord, Have Mercy." We should also want to use the Prayer of St. Ephrem.
Any advice is welcome, and prayers for our efforts are also appreciated. COLLAPSE ▲
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