www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Photo Gallery Chotki on Holy Father

From another Forum.

Father Olexamder shared another picture of then Cardinal Jorge Bergoglioagain wearing a chotki, in a picture with Patriarch Sviatoslav. I see another copy of that picture here: http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/catholics/ugcc/51592/

Perhaps someone will know who the other bishop is in this picture.

This could also be a beaded rosary on a rope.

One could use it to say either the Jesus Prayer or the Rosary, no problem.

What an amazing Pontiff His Holiness is! What a gift to the Church from above! He's just so loveable, approachable and so deeply spiritual, reflecting Christ in all he says and does.

Viva il Papa!

Alex

Some people said that it was an islamic prayer beads given to him. Anybody can clarify? Well I think its a bit nonsense, what for the Pope wearing an islamic prayer beads before people??!

Ow, it was not a Chotki. It was an islamic prayer beads that given to him during his visit by a muslim leader there, just after His Holiness celebrated the Holly Mass. Try watch the video of his visit in youtube.

The third person was identified as Bishop Miguel Mykycej (Eparch Emeritus of the Eparchy Santa María del Patrocinio de Buenos Aires.


It makes no sense he would wear "islamic prayer beads" while meeting with Patriarch Sviatoslav and Eparch Miguel.

Why are people surprised he's wearing a chotki at Work Youth Day? He has longstanding, strong ties with Eastern Catholics. I'm sure the ECs at WYD are happy to see this on his wrist, and can be sure he uses it in his prayers.

A couple of quotes immediately after his election:
Patriarch Sviatoslav on Pope Francis:
"I would first like to say that the newly elected Pope Francis was mentored by one of our [UGCC] priests, Stepan Chmil who is now buried in the basilica of St. Sophia in Rome. Today’s Pope, during his time as a student of the Salesian school, awoke many hours before his classmates to concelebrate at our Divine Liturgy with Fr. Stepan. He knows our Tradition very well, as well as our Liturgy.

From Facebook of Monasterio Católico Bizantino de la Transfiguración
Ukrainian Byzantine Catholic Monastery of the Transfiguration, in the highlands of Pigüé, Argentina. "We want to share with all the great joy of having an Argentine Pope!. Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio was a very close father to us, and has always supported us in everything. We thank God for this great blessing to Argentina and around the world!. We pray very much for it. Viva the Pope Francisco!" (Translated by Bing)

It is true that the prayer beads were given to him by a Muslim leader. I'm not sure whether this means that they are Islamic prayer beads.

For those curious, you can see a Muslim leader giving these prayer beads to Pope Francis at around the 2:45:25 mark in this video:

Yes, they are not a "tasbih" or Muslim prayer beads. I've looked closely at them and there is no way they could be . . .

Alex

Pope's deep relation with UGCC long before he has become the Pope has been known widely and unquestioned.

But what we are discussing here is about the prayer rope he wore in WYD. Not about the picture taken when he was with H.B. Sviatoslav and Eparch Miguel.

Some people said that actually it was an islamic prayer rope that was given by an islam imam during his visit in WYD, based on this film :

But... since it seemed that the news widely spread among Catholics saying that it was a Chotki, i think it's fine. Most likely he would use it to recite the Jesus' Prayer. ^.^

On the other hand, the Muslim tasbih comprises three groups of 33 beads, with dividers and ending with a tassel.

When I was researching prayer beads some years ago, I came across evidence to suggest that Muslims borrowed this tradition from Christians (and there is one Muslim group that I've heard of that does not allow for ANY kind of prayer beads but use their fingers to count . . .).

I've seen Orthodox priests in the Holy Land carry and pray with such prayer beads. I've seen Coptic priests and laity use such beads. And so what? One could well use them to pray the Jesus Prayer or any other prayer.

I once visited a Buddhist shrine in Hawaii where there was a very large statue of the Buddha. Their leader came and invited me to tea.

We got on the topic of prayer beads as I wanted to know what kind of beads his group uses. He showed me two sets of beads where one circle of beads was enclosed in the other. He said they would recite their prayers/mantras by holding down on one of the beads of the 40 bead set as they then moved the other circle of beads with their two index fingers. When the index fingers finished that particular circle of beads (I don't remember how many there were), the thumbs would move onto another bead so that one would count forty rounds. When I showed him my chotki, he said they were more beautiful than anything he had ever seen.

He actually took notes about our chotki and said he would relate our discussion about the Eastern chotki at their celebration of the birthday of the Buddha (which was the next day).

I don't see what the problem with the Pope's beads are since, as a gift from someone of another religion, he put them around his wrist to keep them out of the way as he went about his business.

Christians in Asia use the Asian 108 bead sets. Again, it is just a counting device.

Alex

That is also the Basilica that celebrates really strange liturgies with floats and circus music.

Postscript: Good to see you posting again Ecce Jason.

Forgive me, but those are the prayer beads used by Muslims that were given as a gift to the Pope . . .

Don't know why there would be anything wrong with that or with any Christian using them to pray the Jesus Prayer or any other prayer on them.

One Russian Pentecostal acquaintance of mine, whose father is a Russian Orthodox priest, was apparently so impressed with Pope Francis at that Cathedral, that he has now returned to Sunday Divine Liturgy at his father's parish . . .

To each their own, I say!

Alex

I can remember a time when my Catholic friends, when they were younger, used to tell me that they could not enter an Orthodox church or any non-Catholic church! Just to just open the door and look into a "Protestant Church" was a sin! they told me horror stories of non Catholic family members of the family who were Protestant, did no go to the church even for the wedding ceremony but were allowed to go to the evening supper. And now? Muslim beads... But I believe that someone here will explain how and why it is OK.

Kolya









1

I agree with the "to each his own" comment. I watched the papal mass at the Basilica of Our Lady of Aparecida and was not impressed.

When it comes to papal liturgies I miss Pope Benedict.

Dear Kolya,

Because there is nothing "Muslim" about them - in fact, early Muslims did not have beads but most likely borrowed them from the Christians (the Wahhabis to this day refuse to have beads as they say it is foreign to Islam).

And because the Pope received them as a gift which he could not refuse.

I have a few Muslim prayer beads that are very handsome, with tassels and are three groups of 33 beads.

I can't imagine a more Christian division of beads than that.

Alex