www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West History can be fun

I came across this fascinating little story from history.

Nicetas was the hagiographer for Simeon the New Theologian and had just completed his book: The Life of Simeon. In it he promoted Simeon's teaching that the ordination of the Holy Spirit outranks the ordination of men. His point was that even bishops need to bow down to the authority of truly holy monks and ascetics even if the monks were not ordained bishops, priests, or deacons.

Cardinal Humbard was on his mission to Constantinople in 1054 to talk with Patriarch Michael Cerularius.

These two men met. Humbard's reply to the theology proposed by Nicetas was: "Every state or profession must remain within the limits of its investiture and its degree so that it does not overturn the whole order of dignity in the Church."

Nicetas also had written a treatise criticizing the Latins for their use of unleavened bread indicating an absence of life and of the Spirit, fasting on Saturday and insistance on priestly celibacy.

Humbard's reply to this was to call him, stultior asino (translation, stupid a--) and to place him on the list of heretics.

To each of their credits, Nicetas retracted his criticism, and Humbard removed his name from the list of heretics and even referred to him as a familiaris amicus.

Just thought you would like to know;

From a stultior asino

John

Father Deacon,

A wonderful story, and a lesson to be learned. Reconciliation after the harshest words, is the sweetest consolation. Thank you.

John,

I'm not sure I understand the point of your post. Care to elaborate?

ChristTeen287

I also didn't get the point, but I blame that on waking up a little while ago after a long night, so I'd also like to hear the "moral" of the story. With that said, maybe CT287 forgot or didn't know, but "Petrus" is a Deacon, and should be addressed as such.

Woops! Yes I knew but forgot. Thanks Mor Ephrem and please forgive me Father Deacon.

ChristTeen287

Dear Father Deacon John,

what a great story.

It is the wisdom of Saints to recognize the will of God.

It is up to all men to fullfill God's will and not their own, and to do God's work and not their own.

Just some thoughts...

Steven (a fan of stultior asino's)

...I'm still not graspin it...

dear CT287:

I think the moral of the story is that even though the 2 men [symbolically representing their 2 churches], despite their 2 very different (if not contrary) theological points of view, despite their having attacked one another personally, still managed to reconcile with one another personally AND RESTORE Communion with one another.

May this happen again in our day.

dear Fr. John, What a great story!!! Thank you. Would you have a reference. I would like to be able to pass it on to others.

Dear Friends,

This is truly a great story and lesson.

However, it has nothing whatever to do with the East-West issue, tensions, what have you.

It has everything to do with the tension that sometimes exist between Church authority per se and the life of the Spirit that flows in those who are not bishops or priests.

This was a common theme among spiritual writers following the institutionalization of the Church within the Roman Empire from the time of Constantine.

The lesson of St Simeon the Theologian is fundamentally that we must seek, as St Seraphim of Sarov reiterated, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit throughout our lives through prayer and other ways of deepening our real communion with and life in Christ and the Holy Trinity.

The great saints of the desert performed great wonders in the Spirit Who powerfully communicated to the Church through them. Their constant prayer and union with God was and is the medium by which His Grace was so abundantly poured into them, and through them, into the Church.

The Anointing of the Holy Spirit is an "ordination" that we are all called to experience, whether in Holy Orders or not.

The Eastern Church has always paid close attention to what the monks and hermits said, their visions and prophecies ie. the forty days' following death as an example.

Ordination does not release one from the obligation to live a holy life in Christ.

Even Popes have been known to bow to a lowly person in whom the Presence of the Spirit of Jesus is made very obvious . . .

Alex

Thanks Alex;

For those of you confused by this post, I apologize. I forgot to check back.

There is so much truth imbedded in this little story, I don't know where to begin.

Alex demonstrates part of the answer. However, it must be remembered that monks have also been known to bow before Popes!

The beauty of this story is that both men held truthful positions. Nicetas held essentially that the truth was open to all men and was not reserved to the pleasure of the clergy. The Holy Spirit is available to all and the Holy Spirit ultimately leads us into ourselves (This is a theme especially of Hegel.)

Cardinal Humbard held, as any of the monks on this forum would tell you, that we cannot be left to our own devices, to our own interpretration of right and wrong. We need the discipline of tradition and of a community. The community itself needs the discipline of structure. In short, the Church needs to be the body of Christ.

So both men were right but they refused to see that the truth extended beyond their pervue. As a result they each deteriorated into polemic accusations and to name calling.

The name-calling is another aspect that I like about the story because it belies the personal nature of the Church and the schism. The separations that exist within Christ's church have much to do with our refusal to reach beyond ourselves. Because we are limited in our understanding, we often are reduced to empty argumentation and accusations.

But when we are willing to recognize our own limitations, our own sinfulness, the separation from our brothers fades away and we become a familiaris amicus.*

Furthermore, these men were "personal friends" after the purportedly definitive mutual excommunications,despite the fact that one was from the East, the other from the West. This again showed the personal nature of schism.

In summary, the Church is the body of Christ animated by the Holy Spirit. It cannot be a body without Spirit, and it cannot be Spirit without a body. The Spirit is available to each of us individually, but we cannot image Christ by ourselves. We only do so in communion with all of the faithful.

When we separate ouselves by ignorant polemics and name-calling, we are nothing more than a stultior asino.

John

*My apologies to any Latin scholars. My high school Latin has grown rusty and I am not sure of the proper declension. Should it be familiaris amici?

dear Fr. John:

what a great and wondrous story.

Of hand would you be able to post the reference or citation or source of this story. Of course I will also give you full credit too!

thanks.

Herb

Happy Christmas/Epiphany to all!

Dear Herb;

I found this in a footnote (where such tidbits often reside) in Yves Congar's "I Believe in the Holy Spirit." Please don't make me find the exact one. There must be a million in that book.

John

dear Fr. John:

Thank you Very Much.

That's a great help.

Happy Feast of the Holy Innocents.

Herb