www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Cross Tattoos

CIX!

Dear all,

I'm considering getting myself tattoos in the manner of the Copts and Abyssinians. I have a few questions though:

1) What are the designs of the tattoos? How much variation is there between them and is colour an issue?

2) How large are they and where are they placed?

3) Are there specific prayers to be said when the tattoos are being done?

Many thanks to anyone who can answer these questions =)

Yours in Domino,

Edward

Edward,

Haven't a clue about your queries.

Please, if you DO decide to get tattooed, be SURE that your practitioner (I don't know what they are called, except "tattoo artist") uses sterile technige, maintains a scrupulously clean working environment, maintains excellent personal hygiene, and AUTOCLAVES his/her equipment between each use. (If you can get immunized against hepatitis prior to getting tattooed, it's an excellent idea anyway.)

Tattooing is a personal choice, as is any body modification - but it's also a dandy vector for transmission of bloodborne pathogens such as Hepatitis & HIV unless sterile techniques are observed.

Cheers from your neighborhood health educator (whose company booth at the American Public Health Association conference tends to be right down the aisle from the Association of Professional Piercers, who are working for a common LEGAL standard in the US mandating sterile techniques for piercers & tattoo folks.)

We now return to your normally scheduled religious discussion.

Sharon

Edward: CHB

You do realize that the tatoo is done right slap in the middle of your forehead - in between your eyes and above your nose, and while not huge, they are not exactly tiny and unnoticeable?

Having said that of course, I must confess it really like it when I see people with it. I of course see it generally on women from Ethiopia and Eritrea.

I've never seen any other colour than a kind of darkblue-black.

I believe they are generally in the Ethiopian polystavros-type design.

The person to really answer your questions is Aklie.

O Brother [Aklie], Where art Thou!?

herb.

ps: are you going to get the Slavic 3 Bar design? Surmounted on a Crescent moon? There is also the Chaldean cross, surmounted on a lotus...

Interestingly enough I read about a fellow who, in order never to be without his brown scapular and, hence the protection of the Mother of God, had a brown scapular tatooed on himself. I cannot possibly imagine what he was thinking. Maybe he wasn't. :p
I can almost conjure up an image of this guy going to his parish priest to ask the priest to bless the scapular and to enroll him in it! Way too much for this old monk!
Silouan, confused old monk

Edward,

What are the designs of the tattoos? How much variation is there between them and is colour an issue?

Usually a single vertical and then a singe horizontal line to form a Cross. Alternately small elaborations are sometimes made but these are not huge complex designs. The color is always dark.

How large are they and where are they placed?

As small as a few centimeters and as large as half an inch. It should not be huge. Women place them on the forehead and the men who have them usually have them on their hand (in between their thumb and index finger) or on the shoulder. I have also seen it one the forearm. Interestingly, here in California a cross on the hand is also done by some street gangs. Many Ethiopian women are having their crosses removed via laser in order to prevent the negative stares (such as at job interviews) because their tattoos are wrongly associated with the gang version.

Are there specific prayers to be said when the tattoos are being done?

Yes, O Father please ensure that this artist knows what he/she is doing and that this needle is clean. Amen.

Tattoos are something that babies receive in the countryside. I do not know of any adult that went to get one if they were not given one at birth. I don't know how long you have been considering this choice but if it represents a quick and recent decision you may want to think about it some more. What exactly does it mean to you? Always remember that the laser removal scar looks gross.

Take Care

In Christ,

A. Semaet

CIX

Dear Sharon,

Many thanks for your advice, I'll be sure to keep it in mind!

Dear Aklie,

Sorry to bombard you with questions! So the colour is dark blue?

For men, when you say it's between thumb and index finger, you mean in that small webby fold of skin? Where is it located on the shoulder? I've seen Copts who have it on the forearm.

Where can I get a picture to show the tattoo man exactly what I want?

As for the prayer, very amusing

I want it done as a visible symbol of committment to the Faith, and as a reminder to myself to behave whenever my hands reach out to do something that's less than becoming for an Orthodox Christian.

Just my two cents,

Edward

One more to Sharons comment's, make sure his inks are clean. They sometimes stick their instruments into the dyes.

Edward,

So the colour is dark blue?

Something like that.

Where can I get a picture to show the tattoo man exactly what I want?

Unless you are trying to have a very elaborate Cross I don't see how it will be a problem. You can just draw one, if not just look in some of the old "Ethiopia: peoples and cultures' type of books and I am sure you will see one. It is not complex at all. The intricately "lost wax' method designed Ethiopian hand and processional crosses is not what is replicated on the tattoos. For tattoos it is very simple, yet visible, horizontal and vertical lines.

For men, when you say it's between thumb and index finger, you mean in that small webby fold of skin?

Yeah right there except a little upward toward the hand (as opposed to the palm). If it is too low it will pill off eventually.

Where is it located on the shoulder?

In the upper parts or however you wish, there are no written rules.

I want it done as a visible symbol of commitment to the Faith, and as a reminder to myself to behave whenever my hands reach out to do something that's less than becoming for an Orthodox Christian.

Fair enough, this is sound reasoning. It is similar to our philosophy of wearing the Cross in general and the mateb (a string worn around the neck that is given at baptism) in particular. It identifies you as a Christian and is a statement of commitment. It also reminds you to always strive to do the most good, "if you're going to look like a Christian then you have to act like one.'

In Christ,

A. Semaet

Dear Friends,

Just a question - is not tattooing outlawed by the Old Testament?

It's O.K. as a cultural thing, however!

But our "tattoo" is an invisible one, our Cross that was signed on us when we were baptized.

Alex

Yes it is; just as braiding hair is. But try getting Africans to stop braiding their hair. Obviously that was meant for Hebrews to distinguish themselves from surrounding countries like Egypt. Solomon says: "Do not envy the oppressor, and choose none of his ways" (Proverbs 3:31). So the Children of Israel were instructed to reject the culture of their oppressors. But of course if you are the oppressor yourself it is your own culture and not an envy of another so it doesn't apply to non-Hebrews.

Dear Aklie,

You da man!!

Alex

Hey rockstars!

The Copts differ from the Abbysinians only slightly in this regard. The Copts do not tattoo their foreheads, but only their upper forearm and that other area that I think Aklie called between the thumb and index or that "webby" part or something like that. :-) oddly enough, I do not recall ever seeing a woman with the cross in that "webby" area, though there is no written rule about it.

The tattoo in Egypt originally started because it was a requirement from the Muslims that all Copts have one...This also eventually was useful for distinguishing corpses during times of war, to give the right type of burial. The Copts maintained the cross as a type of loyalty to our religion, and now has multi-meanings. Many of us will do it as a sort of "vow", some do it as a remembrance of something wonderful the Lord has done for them.... it has several meanings. I've got both the forearm and the webby area. Both are relatively small (barely a centimetre in either direction), and I have the Coptic Cross, not the Ethiopian one described by Aklie as two bars.

Prayers?
"O God, the Great and Eternal, please let not this pain remain forever!" j/k mine actually didn't heart while being tattooed in Egypt, but it stung a bit a couple of hours later.

Peace and grace.
Agape,
Fortunatus
Amen, maranatha!

Dear Mina,

So you mean that the practice started out as a Muslim requirement for Christians in Egypt and that it was later maintained?

Alex

Yes, indeed. :-) The same is true of some of our priests' clothing - like the black turban. The priests were forced to wear this. Commoners had to wear blue turbans if they were Christian.

Peace and grace.
Agape,
Fortunatus
amen, maranatha!

Dear Mina,

I like the company of Oriental Orthodox!

I get called "schismatic" and "polemicist" by Byzantine Catholics and Orthodox - there's no pleasing them!

This reminds me of the traditional white outfit of our modern chefs.

Apparently, it is a remake of the garb of Eastern Orthodox monks.

After the Fall of Constantinople, a number of aristocrats escaped to Orthodox monasteries, including Mt. Athos.

They were allowed to remain on condition that they "did something" with their lives.

Many opted to be cooks and it was decreed that they were to wear the monastic garb - but in white.

Alex