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This is an excellent article by Ralph Martin on the Charismatic and Contempletive Life and how they come together. I hope it brings healing, understanding, and encouragement.
http://www.renewalministries.net/pdfs/Char_Cont..pdf
In Christ, Pani Rose

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FYI, in Indonesia there are 2 Catholic Congregation in full affiliation with the Carmelites which blends the Charismatic Renewal and Carmel spirituality. The Congregations are of Diocesan status.

I'll copy and paste some brief description from the Carmelite website:
http://www.ocarm.org/citoc.news/citoc2en.htm
PUTRI KARMEL AND CARMELITAE SANCTI ELIAE

Short history

In our century we see the birth of many new institutions, lay as well as religious. Among them are Putri Karmel (Daughters of Carmel) and Carmelitae Sancti Eliae (CSE). Putri Karmel is a religious community of women, whereas CSE is for men. God has called them into existence through the instrumentality of a Carmelite priest, Fr. Yohanes Indrakusuma, member of the Indonesian Province. Putri Karmel was founded in 1982, in Ngadireso, a small village in the diocese of Malang, East Java, and CSE in 1986 in the same place. The two communities were flourishing and attracting many people to their place, and this caused a lot of trouble and opposition. In 1988 the CSE brothers, together with Fr. Yohanes, had to move out of Malang and they settled in Cikanyere, a small village in the diocese of Bogor, about 100 km from Jakarta, on land purchased for them by two generous benefactors. The departure was very painful, but in God�s unfathomable providence it proved to be a great blessing for the community and God�s people in West Java.

In 1992 the expansion began for Putri Karmel with a new community in the diocese of Ruteng, Flores. In 1993 a study house was purchased in Malang, in a very providential way, showing how the Lord was with them. Then in 1995 a new community was founded in Cikanyere, West Java, in the diocese of Bogor. Finally, in 1997, they founded, almost simultaneously, two new communities, one in the diocese of Medan, North Sumatra, and the other outside Indonesia, in Sabah, East Malaysia, where they were received heartily by the bishop. In this community there are five Malaysians sisters. In all these places they are all very esteemed and loved by the local bishops, by the people and in most parts also by the local clergy.

The Carmelitae Sancti Eliae is primarily a religious community, not a clerical one, even though there are some clerics among their members, but they have no priests yet. At present they have two houses (one of which is a "desert community", a purely contemplative community) and a big retreat centre (with a capacity of 252 beds) in Bogor. In Malang they have a study house and another retreat centre. Both centres are run together with Putri Karmel.

Spirituality and way of life

The two communities have the same spirituality, way of life and ministry. Fundamentally they follow the spirit of the Carmelite Rule and Traditions, accentuating the contemplative aspect, integrated with the Charismatic Renewal. From the latter they learned the openness and docility to the Holy Spirit and His gifts, especially in ministering to people. They opted for an open-contemplative way of life with a predominance on the life of prayer and contemplation. Until now their monasteries are built in solitary places. This is what they call the basic community. Beside the divine office they spend 2 hours daily in silent prayer (mediation/contemplation), one in the morning and another in the evening. For this they use preferably the lectio divina or the Jesus Prayer. Scripture reading has a prominent place in their life.

From this basic way of life spring the active-contemplative community and the desert-community. The active-contemplative community is more open to various ministries, mainly spiritual, but always in accordance with their spirit. The desert-community is a purely contemplative one, without any active ministry. Their first mission is to stand before the Lord, like Moses who prayed on the mountain while Joshua was in war with the Canaanites. Both institutions have their own desert-community. The sisters and brothers can stay there either for good or temporarily.

Ministry

Their ministry is mainly spiritual and they do by this by conducting different kinds of retreats, teaching people the way of prayer and contemplation, counselling and praying for healing, especially inner healing. Through their retreats and prayers God brought many people to conversions and to the knowledge of God. It is almost a weekly occurrence that people are being converted, even during the ordinary Sunday Eucharist. During the "initiation retreat" it is very frequent that non-practising Christians come to confession after 5, 10, 15, or even 20 years. It is really a tremendous grace and a great privilege to be allowed to witness God�s infinite merciful love in operation. That is why, especially in Cikanyere, Bogor, that for the last two years, our programs for the whole year were already fully booked in February of that year. In order to be able to participate in a retreat they have to wait a long time, not withstanding the fact, that the centre has 252 beds available and more than 20 programs a year. The retreat centre in Malang is as crowded as in Bogor, and for some retreats they even accommodate more than 400 people.

The sisters and brothers are in great demand among the people and they are invited everywhere. They travel to many places in Indonesia. These last two years they are also invited abroad to Malaysia, Singapore, Australia and even to the USA, although they minister mainly among the Indonesians abroad, except in Malaysia and Singapore.

A very interesting ministry is among the youth. Every year, during school holidays, the CSE brothers organised what they called a "Spiritual Youth Camp", a kind of retreat, for a whole week each time. There, many lives are converted and renewed. These last few years these camps attracted 2300-2800 young people each year. The Lord is pouring down abundantly his saving love among His people at the dawn of the Third Millennium.


They have "third order" for laity non-religious too.
http://www.ocarm.org/citoc.news/00-03eng.htm
COMMUNITY OF THE HOLY TRINITY
(Komunitas Tritunggal Mahakudus)

Historical background

The Community of the Holy Trinity is a lay covenant community, founded by Putri Karmel and Carmelitae Sancti Eliae (cf. CITOC 1999, 43-44) during a retreat held on 9-11 January 1987 in Malang, Indonesia. The main idea underlying the formation of this group is to give a solid and on-going Catholic and spiritual formation for the lay people who are active and eager to know the Lord in a deeper and more intimate way.

Through Initial Retreats it was observed that many lay people had a genuine and deep conversion and an experience of God. Many of these experiences renewed their life deeply and permanently. After this conversion their life was changed totally. Through these spiritual experiences their way of life and their world-view were changed deeply. They experienced a radical shift in values, where they saw everything in a new light, the light of faith. After these retreats Jesus became a real living person for them, whereas before He was rather distant and vague. They experienced Him as their Lord and Saviour and He became the centre of their life. Many experienced a dramatic change and renewal, and not a few experienced a freedom from certain bondage. Their joy and happiness was visible on their faces and the obvious change could easily be observed. Prayer, reading and pondering the Word of God had become a real need for them. Many spent more than one hour every day in prayer and Scripture reading. They really hunger and thirst for the word of God and for a deeper knowledge of God. It is interesting to note that many of the members were formerly unchurched people.

From these observations and considerations, it was concluded that they needed a community and formation so that they could grow spiritually. For this reason, in a retreat held in January 1987, the idea was proposed to them to build a covenant community, where these people would be able to commit themselves and receive a continuous formation. To this proposal many responded enthusiastically. Thus the Community of the Holy Trinity was born. They grow steadily from day to day, in number and in maturity. A few months ago they counted about 1500 members, young and old.

Life, spirituality and apostolate

The whole life of the community is based on life in cells. The whole community is divided into cells. Several cells form an area, several areas form a district and several districts become a region, and eventually several regions will form a province. Up to the present, the community has only 2 regions.

The life of the community is focused on the cells. As the human body consists of many cells, so it is with this community. Each cell consists of 4-15 members. The life principle of the cell is growth. A healthy cell must grow and multiply. Every one has to have a missionary spirit and bring another person to the cell, so that the number of people in the cell grows continually and when they reach 15, they have to be divided into two new cells, thus each cell remains small and can preserve personal relationships and intimacy among the members.

The cell is led by a cell-servant and assisted by an assistant cell-servant, chosen from the cell. The word servant is used for the leader in order to remind them that to be a leader is to serve. These cell servants have to undergo training for several weeks in order to enable them to lead their cells and after that they still receive on-going formation. When a cell has grown into two new cells, the assistant becomes the new cell-servant. Normally each cell meets twice a month, but there are cells which meet every week. During the cell meetings they praise and worship the Lord with songs and prayer; they share reflections on a passage of Scripture, chosen beforehand, and they share their daily experiences in the light of faith. After that they pray for each other according to individual needs, and during the week they pray for each other through special intentions. In this way a Christian brotherhood is formed. Beside cell meetings, they also hold an area meeting regularly, usually for instruction.

Each member has to make a gradual commitment. First, every member has to dedicate at least an hour a day for prayer and Scripture reading, attend at least one Eucharist during the week, and confess regularly. People are incorporated gradually into the community. They have to undergo a program of formation and stay a certain length of time in order to be able to graduate from one stage to the next. This formation is given in the spirit and in line with the rich heritage of Carmel.

The members of the community come from very different backgrounds: young and old, simple and very educated people, doctors, lawyers, business-men, simple working people, and members of the armed forces. There are also students' cells, which are flourishing. The cells are spreading over several cities in Indonesia and several cells are establishing themselves in Australia, New Zealand and the United States, but until now only among Indonesian migrants.

The community is open to whatever needs there are in the Church. However, priority is given to the formation of its members. For the time being much time and energy is spent on this formation, thus, as a community, they don't have any specific outside project. But these communities form their members in such a way that they become the salt of their respective parishes and work and minister to the people around them in union with their pastors. Many of the members have prominent and important positions in the parish. Until the present, besides ministering to each other in the community, they care for the sick and the lonely, helping the poor, ministering among the prisoners.

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Greetings and Blessings!

I was wondering, I have never heard or read about any Orthodox or Byzantine parish communities identifying themselves as a "Charismatic" community.

Are there "Charismatic" Orthodox and/or Byzantine parish communities in the United States?...If so, where are they?

Thank You and God's Blessings Always!

...Ignatius...


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Ignatius,

Here is a link to the Orthodox teaching on the Charismatic movement. It was written by Hieromonk Seraphim Rose, who is soon to be formally canonized. It is too long to post on the Forum.

http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/charismatic_revival_s_rose_e.htm

Alexandr

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I've seen "the Charismatic" firsthand in various circles: Roman Catholic, Anglican, AoG, and even once experienced "the Toronto Blessing" craze, which I would advise anyone to stay away from. What I found is that some of it is from God the Holy Spirit, and much of it is not, and some maybe initially but is poorly discerned and misguided.

The real issue I've learned, is whether or not the leadership of any tradition, i.e. Orthodox or Roman Catholic, are capable of hearing, discerning, and listening to what God the Holy Spirit desires for the Church via any genuine outpouring and filtering out the rest. Since, the purpose of any genuine outpouring of the Spirit is to add and bless to what the Church already has, and not to take away from it or contradict the Faith that has been passed down, the outpouring of the Spirit (and the Charismatic gifts) can only be received and incorporated into historic traditions (without endangering those traditions) if done wisely and carefully by those in leadership. However, they (those in apostolic leadership) have to be equipped, trained and gifted, to do so, which is what the original apostles were (3 years of it). Since most today are not, many fear, shy away and are unable to respond to the Spirit's moving and guide the Church in such.

Many unwise and unlearned in non-historical traditions fail to discern what the Spirit desires for them, which if it is a genuine outpouring of the Spirit, would likely be to draw them closer into the unity and traditions of the ancient Faith and the building up of the Church, not away from it. The charismatic gifts given are for that very purpose. They are not an end in themselves, but a gift to the Church for the building up of the Church.

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I believe the interesting fact about Charismatic Renewal (at least in the Catholic circle) is that it can perfectly be integrated to the existing spirituality of the Church.
This integration is totally important to discern its authenticity.

The first post is about how Carmelite Spirituality can be used for that discernment and to produce a healthy charismatic spirituality. This is done for now exist a branch of order of Carmel with this spirituality.

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Greetings and Blessings,

I have been a "Catholic Charismatic" for many years now...and I have seen how the Holy Spirt moves with all the "gifts" it brings. I find the message (below) by Kephalikos very refreshing and comforting...

Quote
FROM kephalikos

I've seen "the Charismatic" firsthand in various circles: Roman Catholic, Anglican, AoG...

The real issue I've learned, is whether or not the leadership of any tradition, i.e. Orthodox or Roman Catholic, are capable of hearing, discerning, and listening to what God the Holy Spirit desires for the Church...

The charismatic gifts given are for that very purpose. They are not an end in themselves, but a gift to the Church for the building up of the Church.
Being my heart is with the Church of the East as a practicing RC...I am seeking to learn of how the "East" accepts the Charismatic movement? As I had always thought, the "early" Church held the "7 Gifts" of the Holy Spirit very close to their Liturgy. And, the post (below) reference, which I had read, I found very troubling with its content. Does anyone have more "early Church" and "historical" data references with regard to this topic?

Quote
Ignatius,

Here is a link to the Orthodox teaching on the Charismatic movement. It was written by Hieromonk Seraphim Rose, who is soon to be formally canonized. It is too long to post on the Forum.

http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/charismatic_revival_s_rose_e.htm

Alexandr
Many Blessings of the Lord to You!

...Ignatius..


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There really does not need to be a dichotomy between Orthodoxy and the Charismatic. Orthodoxy incorporates Holy Scripture and the traditions passed down. The baptism (gift) of the Holy Spirit and hence the charismatic gifts are included in both. The Charismatic is not itself an isolated separate or different tradition, but part of the whole of that which was was given to the Church.

If Roman Catholics can incorporate the charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit into "their" piece of the pie, I don't see why the Orthodox and Eastern Catholics can not as well.

Here is a link to an RC leadership conference going on this weekend in New Mexico.

http://www.nsc-chariscenter.org/Conference/workshops.asp

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Just a note regarding the topic. We often focus on the sometimes haughtily used outward and visible gifts of the Spirit, often in order to denouce the charismatic in total, and so we forget the quieter often unsought gifts, such as wisdom, knowledge, helps, etc.

However what I found myself most blessed in, was the blessed effective increase in my prayer life ... the ability to focus and meditate on God's Word, His Presence, and the ability to intercede for others.

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Greetings and Blessings!

Quote
kephalikos said:
However what I found myself most blessed in, was the blessed effective increase in my prayer life ... the ability to focus and meditate on God's Word, His Presence, and the ability to intercede for others.
I find Kephalikos' statement above very comforting...and I do understand the words he is conveying about our Church history. However, I am wondering if there is any historical Church documentation reflecting those "early" liturgies with openly bringing in the Gifts of the Holy Spriit?

Thank you and God's Blessings Always...

....Ignatius....


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This is an excellent book by Fr. Kilian McDonnell, OSB and Fr. George Montague, SM in their important work,Christian Initiation and Baptism in the Holy Spirit: Evidence from the First Eight Centuries.

A companion to it is Fanning the Flame: What Does Baptism in the Holy Spirit Have to Do with Christian Initiation?


There is one more in the group and I can't remember the name. There are three that are very informative. Here is part of a docment from the USCCB.

Grace For The New Springtime
A Statement from the United States Catholic Conference of Bishops on the Charismatic Renewal

Baptism in the Holy Spirit
In the Sacraments of Initiation we experience the action of the Triune God. As regards the Third Person of the Trinity, in Baptism we become temples of the Holy Spirit; in Eucharist we share in the Body and Blood of Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit; in Confirmation we are empowered with the gifts and charisms of the Spirit to be witnesses for Jesus Christ. In this statement, we want not only to affirm the good fruit of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal but also the grace which is at the heart of this Renewal, namely, baptism in the Holy Spirit, or the fuller release of the Holy Spirit, as some would prefer.

As experienced in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal baptism in the Holy Spirit makes Jesus Christ known and loved as Lord and Savior, establishes or reestablishes an immediacy of relationship with all those persons of the Trinity, and through inner transformation affects the whole of the Christian's life. There is new life and a new conscious awareness of God's power and presence. It is a grace experience which touches every dimension of the Church's life: worship, preaching, teaching, ministry, evangelism, prayer and spirituality, service and community. Because of this, it is our conviction that baptism in the Holy Spirit, understood as the reawakening in Christian experience of the presence and action of the Holy Spirit given in Christian initiation, and manifested in a broad range of charisms, including those closely associated with the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, is part of the normal Christian life.
http://ccc.garg.com/ccc/articles/nonattributed/US_Bishops_001.html

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Greetings and Blessings Pani Rose..

Thank you for your post...

I am a Oblate member of a Benedictine (monastery) Charismatic community. We share every month the teachings of St. Benedict as well as learn from our Benedictine Director the many teachings of the Holy Gifts. He had attended the world Charismatic Renewal gathering in Rome last year and has shared his many experiences.

Since the early 1970's I have been experiencing the Gifts of the Holy Spirit within the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. I have studied everything the RC has placed on the shelf. I am very familiar how it bagan and I am seeking a more deeper learning and understanding within the Eastern Church than of what the USCCB discusses.

Our Holy and Sacred liturgies stem from a more greater meaning within the Byzantine/Orthodox history of the Church. Unfortunately, the RC has not maintained many of those earlier traditions and meanings. There must be some resources within the East that presents how the Gifts of the Holy Spirit were manifested.

Again, I thank you for your thoughts..

God's Blessings Always,

...Ignatius...


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