www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Why do Romans head east?

It should be more than "good enough." Who are any of us to place limitations on the movement of the Holy Spirit?

One of the most upsetting comments I have seen to date on this forum was one in which the eastern postern said to a refugee from the west, "Unless you come to the east for the reason(s) of [XYZ], WE DON'T WANT YOU."

How dare any Christian say to another, "We" don't want you?

It is Christ that calls us, and the Holy Spirit that moves and guides us, and woe to him or her who says to one of God's children, "We don't want you."

Dear Alex,

"Don't worry, I use deodorant," said Alex

"Whew! That is a relief!" said Mary Jo. :rolleyes:

Now, I think you get where I am coming from and I am glad. Thanks for the encouragement. It does mean a lot.

Fondly,

Mary Jo

Dear DocBrian,

I have met traditional RC's who are more Eastern than many Ukrainian Catholics I know!

And these latter sometimes feel that RC's in their parish are taking them Eastwardly in too radical a fashion!

I've never said we didn't need anyone.

We need everyone and my father-in-law, with his coffee hours after Liturgy, has people coming in from all sorts of religious and cultural backgrounds.

He gets to know everyone and always tries to get them to join the parish

We even have Orthodox who attend for convenience' sake and when they asked the parish priest if they had to become Catholic, he replied, "Only when YOU want to."

They liked that . . .

You are always welcome in the UGCC, Sir!

(I admit that I find it interesting that we have Irish who pronounce Ukrainian words better than many cradle Ukies - perhaps some historic connection to Scythia? Brother Neil, any comments on that?).

Alex

Why not two but equal liturgies in the West, The NO and the TLM? Perhaps when the PX Society becomes normalized it will encompass the FOSP and PV. I hope this happens and the indult goes away !!!!

An apostolic vicar can oversee the PX churches and they would not have to worry about the local bishop to fill its churches.

I think the time is coming soon.

I love the EC and will still go once or twice a month !!!

Sorry to detrack the thread, but I have a question/concern about the following statement from the OP:

Are we to believe this? How can we reach God except through love? Perhaps I can take that fear will lead us to take seriously His call to Love... is that what was meant? But it still strikes me as very odd. Is heaven something achieved? Is it somewhere ya just "get" to? This whole quote just sits really wrong with me. Am I alone here?

IMO, they can't be separate but equal liturgies
under the same Rite, but rather should be erected
as two separate, independent Western Rites,
because, in all honesty, they really don't
share the same Theology. It's not like comparing
the Liturgy of St. Basil to the Liturgy of St.
John Chrysostom. The Tridentine and Novus Ordo
are (speaking only for myself) two fundamentally
DIFFERENT "ways of worship" and do not belong
in the same "Rite".

antonius

I admit, its a troublesome concept, but it is mentioned in Catholic theology:

Attrition or Imperfect Contrition [newadvent.org]
From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

Attrition
Attrition or Imperfect Contrition (Lat. attero, "to wear away by rubbing"; p. part. attritus).

The Council of Trent (Sess. XIV, Chap. iv) has defined contrition as "sorrow of soul, and a hatred of sin committed, with a firm purpose of not sinning in the future". This hatred of sin may arise from various motives, may be prompted by various causes. The detestation of sin arise from the love of God, Who has been grievously offended, then contrition is termed perfect; if it arise from any other motive, such its loss of heaven, fear of hell, or the heinousness of guilt, then it is termed imperfect contrition, or attrition. That there exists such a disposition of soul as attrition, and that it is a goodly things an impulse of the Spirit of God, is the clear teaching of the Council of Trent (Sess. XIV, iv).

And as to that imperfect contrition which is called attrition, because it is commonly conceived either from the consideration of the turpitude of sin, or from the fear of hell and of punishment, the council declares that if with the hope of pardon, it excludes the wish to sin, it not only does not make man a hypocrite and a greater sinner, but that it is even a gift of God, and an impulse of the Holy Spirit, who does not indeed as yet dwell in the penitent, but who only moves him whereby the penitent, being assisted, prepares a way for himself unto justice, and although this attrition cannot of itself, without the Sacrament of Penance, conduct the sinner to justification yet does it dispose him to receive the grace of God in the Sacrament of Penance. For smitten profitably with fear, the Ninivites at the preaching of Jonas did fearful penance and obtained mercy from Lord.
Wherefore attrition, the council in Canon v, Sess. XIV, declares: "If any man assert that attrition . . . is not a true and a profitable sorrow; that it does not prepare the soul for grace, but that it makes a man a hypocrite, yea, even a greater sinner, let him be anathema". The doctrine of the council is in accord with the teaching of the Old and the New Testament. The Old Testament writers praise without hesitation that fear of God which is really "the beginning of wisdom" (Ps. cx). One of the commonest forms of expression found in the Hebrew scriptures is the "exhortation to the fear of the Lord" (Ecclus., i, 13; ii, 19 sqq.). We are told that "without fear there is no justification" (ibid, i, 28; ii, 1; ii, 19). In this fear there is confidence of strength" and it is "fountain of life" (Prov, xiv, 26, 27); and the Psalmist prays (Ps. cxviii, 120): "Pierce thou my flesh with thy fear: for I am afraid of thy judgments."

Yes, I think that is what the concept implies.

From Purgatory and Hell: Forgotten Destinations [catholic.net]

Thanks for the replies Doc. It's helpful to understand where they came from and things make a lot more sense that they are from the West. Helps give it context and understand the mindset in which they were declared. Thanks again!

John