www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West The Greek Orthodox had Indulgences!

Dear Chtec,

Excellent question!

It seems that the indulgences were modeled after the Western ones. One could indeed purchase an indulgence in the sense that an indulgence in the West could be granted for a "good work" such as a sum of money for the church etc.

Not all the Greeks rejected the idea of purgatory as Meyendorff has shown - St Peter Mohyla did indeed accept purgatory and included it in his Catechism which subject was expunged by the Eastern Orthodox Patriarchs - but Mohyla still insisted on keeping it in his catechism in his Kyivan Metropolia.

The Orthodox believe, as you know, that the souls of those not yet ready for heaven all go to hades.

It is not the nature of hades that determines their length of stay there (i.e. eternal as in hell), but the nature of their sin that determines their length of stay in Hades.

Thus, they can be released from there until the Second Coming of Christ through the prayer of the Church etc.

The notion of "debt" even after sin has been forgiven is strong in Orthodoxy, although it is defined in terms of "works of repentance."

In more than one place, Orthodox dogmatic texts talk of the need for works of repentance or fruits following forgiveness of sin in confession and how, should a soul die not having had a chance to be fruitful in this regard, it could be helped in the next life etc.

Even St Nicodemus the Hagiorite seems to have been closely acquainted with these "Orthodox indulgences" if he could have been so "non-chalant" about them in his correspondence!

In addition, to this day, the Orthodox parishes in Western Ukraine, as Prof. Poselianin states in his "Bogomater," have many "Vidpusts" "Otpusts," or, how would you translate this - "indulgenced pilgrimages?"

It is clearly something taken out of the practice of the Greek-Catholics in honour of the various local miraculous icons of the Mother of God.

It is clear that people attend these and make a "podvig" of prayer and penance in honour of the icon on its feast-day to gain something more than the forgiveness of sins in confession (that can be had at their home parish).

What do you say?

Alex

Thanks, Alex, for your post!

Can you, or anyone else, give a good explanation of the Roman Catholic teaching on indulgences, or recommend some good info online? I don't know too much about them, and I'd like some good, balanced info.

Dave

I just got a book titled "The Pochaev Monastery in Ukraine".

After reading the opening paragraph in English which criticizes the "careless members of the Uniate Church, who neglected the cathedral so, that rats ran in it", I was surprised to read this little paragragh further on in the book.

"Eight times a year, from Easter to the holiday of the Holy Virgin's Protection, the religious procession is carried out in Pochaev's Lavra for 755 years. On September 8, 1775, the Pope Clement XIV gave the complete indulgence of all sins for those who visited the monastery on the day of Miracle-working icon coronation . More than one hundred thousand of believers gathered for this holiday and they went all round the monastery with religious procession. Nowadays from 8 to 10 thousand believers take part in every great holiday."[sic]

The indulgence was granted during the time when the Pochaev monastery was under the care of the Basilians.

While the Russian Orthodox didn't like having the "Uniate Church" in charge of the monastery, they appear to have no problem in keeping the indulgence granted by a Pope! Shocking!!

Ah, but you see, they have now LIBERATED the indulgence!

I had a nice portion of Peking Duck the other evening - now THERE is an indulgence worth having!

Incognitus

Dear Griego,

There is a book on the Pochaiv Lavra in Ukrainian by Met. Ilarion Ohienko "The Lavra of Pochaiv: Fortress of Orthodoxy in Volyn."

It's a fascinating read of the history of that shrine.

The coronation of the Pochaiv Mother of God was actually done with Papal crowns. The whole celebration lasted several days, with both RC and GC priests and bishops, including papal legates who brought the crowns.

It was largely paid for by Count Myron Pototsky, an aristocrat of mixed Polish/Ukrainian background, who became Greek-Catholic soon after experiencing a miracle he attributed to the Pochaiv Mother of God.

He led a reckless life and was very ill-humoured.

Once he got mad at his footman and actually drew his pistol to shoot him where he stood!

But the gun wouldn't go off, so he tried again, and again it wouldn't go off.

With the footman on his knees begging for his life, the Count drew his pistol a third time, but it still wouldn't go off. Then he looked up and saw the Pochaiv monastery in the background.

At this he repented, felt thoroughly ashamed and promised to amend his life (essentially what I do whenever I'm taken to task here by the Administrator! ).

He became a devoted servant of the Mother of God of Pochaiv, gave very much money to the monastery including paying the vast sums for the ceremony of the coronation of the Pochaiv Icon. He actually petitioned Rome for the glorification of the icon with crowns and the Pope of the day granted his petition!

He became a Greek-Catholic, although he never learned Slavonic. He died in the odour of sanctity as a "Third Order Basilian" wearing the Basilian monastic habit and was buried at the monastery. He is mentioned (in a general way) in the Orthodox akathist to the Pochaiv Mother of God!

He fell in love with the Eastern Church and even gave money to the strident Orthodox "hold-out" against the Unia, the Manjavsky Skete.

He ALSO promoted the Canonization, by Rome itself, of St Job of Pochaiv.

(FYI, he was best friends with my direct ancestor, Count August Jablonowsky.)

I actually have in my possession an antique religious medal with the Icon of Pochaiv on one side (with the papal crowns) and the icon of St Job of Pochaiv on the other from the 18th century.

I am informed that Rome was going to canonize St Job a Catholic saint - but then the Lavra fell back to the Orthodox and the matter was closed (Fr. Sergius Keleher).

Count Pototsky also had a very Baroque/Latin item placed over an iconostasis in the Lavra and when the Orthodox had it back, they petitioned the Russian Synod for permission to take it down.

When the Synod reviewed the matter, it ordered the Pochaiv monks to leave it alone! (Good!)

Not only the Pochaiv Lavra, but very many Orthodox parishes in Western Ukraine that were once GC but then became Orthodox again continued to hold their indulgenced pilgrimages - a great many are listed by the Russian Orthodox scholar, Poselianin, in his "Bogomater."

It could have been a matter of "reinterpretation" of indulgences by the Orthodox that allowed them to continue.

For example, there are those who argue that the Orthodox devotion to Our Lady of Lourdes in France was based on a misconception as to Whose Immaculate Conception was being referred to (i.e. that of Christ not of the Mother of God).

If the Orthodox believed the indulgence was a remission of sin for good works - a kind of public absolution - then that certainly would have been more acceptable than the confusing RC view on "satisfaction for temporal punishment, having first, through auricular confession, obtained forgiveness for sins meriting eternal punishment."

Polish RC's especially had a great devotion to the Pochaiv Mother of God and one Polish king ordered that all Jews passing by Pochaiv had to get off their donkeys and walk out of respect for the Lavra until they completely passed it . . .

As for neglect of the monastery, that COULD have happened under the Basilians when it became probable that the Lavra would return to the Orthodox.

For example, when the Basilians felt this would happen in the lifetime of Pototsky, they actually dissuaded him from putting any more money into construction or renovation projects at the Lavra. Pototsky shrugged it off and continued with his work anyway. He is very esteemed by Orthodox and Orthodox authors especially.

Alex