www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Kyrie Eleison - Latin or Greek

Alice,

Welcome back. It's very good to see you

God grant you many years,

Neil

Inawe,
I would refer you to the Doctor of Wittenberg in his "Letter on the Freedom of A Christian." He is considered the Shakespeare of German and makes the point clearer than I could hope to. Political correctness existed during the corrupt Medici period as well. "What is the use of salt if it does not bite?" I do not take your remarks as sharp in the least.

I dissent from the view that figures from 2,000 years ago would not speak in the same manner today.

Incognitus,

I'll trade you Anton's recipe for an incredibly delicious chocolate cake (also not suitable for fasting periods - maybe not even any penitential period :rolleyes: ) and/or the vegetarian chili, jointly concocted by Theophan and me, which is appropriate for periods of abstinence, but still delicious :p .

Meet you at the Convention or the Enthronement? I'll be the one with the recipe in my buttonhole .

Many years,

Neil

Alice,

A most warm welcome back! I hope the support and responses of others in this thread have outweighed the discourtesy and insensitive tone of one. As for the "dog" remark - that was out of context in relation to what you had said. Jesus told the Syro-Phoenician woman that he had come for the house of Israel. The term 'dog' was a term used by Jews to refer to Gentiles. Jesus was not rejecting this woman. He may have wanted to use the situation to show that salvation was available to many. But... SHE replied to him that "even the dogs could eat the crumbs from the table." And he told her she was a WOMAN of great faith...

Here it is:

Jesus did not answer a word, So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."
He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said.
He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
"Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table.
Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith!" Your request is granted." Mt.15:23-28

The disciples were showing a definite lack of sensitivity and compassion in their remarks, but the woman persevered, and Jesus acknowledged her faith and granted her request to heal her daughter.

In Christ and the Theotokos,

Mary Jo

yes, Kyrie Eleison is Greek, going back to the days when the Mass/Liturgy was in Greek, as every British Schoolboy would know. Domine, misere would be the Latin form.

No one claimed anything contrary to the above.
In the Kingdom, their are many personality types and all are needed.

Some are as mild as Therese of Liseux or Francis of Asissi. Some are as brash as St.Peter. In the ironic modern secular world, the mild wish to censor the brash. All types should be welcome.

Free speech is slipping away with our current cultural norms and it is more Victorian than biblical in its origin. In Canada, it is now illegal to publically quote the Old Testament on sodomy. America will be there in 30 years.

Dear Alice,

Welcome back! It is wonderful to hear your voice again, so to speak.

Dear Inawe,

Brilliantly put. Courtesy and respect are never to be discarded.

Dear Walnut,

See above.


Gaudior, who much misses the courtesy and respect that characterized ByzCath even as late as Pascha...and who wonders what happened to everyone?

If only the Church was still militant. Now it fears offending Voodoo witch doctors and it invites them to draw on the Supreme Pontiff's forehead. The Church Milquetoast is the church of scandal and it is not a coincidence.

Posted by Walnut:

"Inawe,
I would refer you to the Doctor of Wittenberg in his "Letter on the Freedom of A Christian." He is considered the Shakespeare of German and makes the point clearer than I could hope to. Political correctness existed during the corrupt Medici period as well. "What is the use of salt if it does not bite?" I do not take your remarks as sharp in the least.

I dissent from the view that figures from 2,000 years ago would not speak in the same manner today."


Dear Walnut,

Thank you for your response and for your referral.
I have read the words of the Doctor of Wittenberg a number of times, thank you. For me, however, neither the thought nor language choices of the Doctor of Wittenberg constitute the guide to charity in speech.

In this case I don't believe that I need to reread them. You have made and continue to make your position perfectly clear.

I stand by my comments to you.

I think that it was St. Philip Neri who said something like you can catch more flies with a teaspoon of honey than with a barrel of vinegar.

In my opinion, the Church Militant is still the Church Militant. It appears that she has chosen to be strong enough in her Faith in God's power to exemplifying the sweetness of the Gospel Christ who is using her to evangelize the world.

In any case, the Law of Love is still the guide for the behavior of Christians even in the matter of speech.

Thank you for hearing me out.

Steve

Dear Alice,

I, too, have been away for awhile and am shocked at the attitude of some people who have joined in my absence. They are driving off long-standing members like Diak. Even our dear Alex is gone for good now.

I think it is sad that one cannot make a simple benign comment like yours without the vipers jumping on them.

Tammy

Here's the recipe; enjoy, y'all!

Chocolate Walnut Torte


[N.B. all measurements are USA!]

1 cup sweet butter

1 1/2 cups confectioner's sugar

8 eggs separated

6 oz chocolate chips melted

2 cups ground walnuts

3 tablespoons flour

1 1/2 teaspoons vanilla
- combine soft butter, sugar, egg yolks, melted chocolate, nuts, flour, and vanilla.

- beat egg whites until stiff and fold in a little at a time.

- coat 3 nine-inch layer pans with butter and flour. Fill with batter, as evenly as possible, and bake 30 minutes at 350� [Fahrenheit] or until touching the center with a finger leaves no print.

- allow to cool. Filling recipe on next page.

Filling
for Chocolate Walnut Torte
(I always double the filling -)

2 oz. semi-sweet chocolate

1/3 cup sugar

2 cups ground walnuts

1/2 cup milk

1/4 cup sweet butter

1 tablespoon rum

- melt chocolate & sugar over double boiler; stir in nuts and milk and bring to boil; remove from heat. Add butter and rum after mixture has cooled somewhat.

Dear Tammy,

I felt that I simply HAD to come on just one more time to respond on this score.

I myself am the cause of my own misfortune here, including provoking normally quite nice posters like Irish Melkite to jump on my case and read me the "Pater Noster" (and that is as far as his "Latinization" goes! ).

I've behaved very badly and the Administrator had no other alternative but to ask me to voluntarily cease posting (I don't consider this a "post" on a topic, only a point of clarification, I hope that it is taken as such).

My point is that I've no wish to be pointed out as a "victim" - Heaven knows, I've portrayed myself as such often enough!

I'm not here not because the forum is a bad place to be - it is NOT.

It is a place where one can learn all sorts of things.

There are those who should know better, but don't and offend people. They deserve to be removed from here.

There are others, like me, (or perhaps I'm the only one - stop being so egocentric, Alex, stop that now, it's not about you, darn it! ), as I was saying, there are others, like me, who DO know better but don't act as if they do and so don't deserve to be here either.

But this forum remains the informative, prayerful and intelligent place it has always been and it is to be hoped that the people who make this place great, such as yourself, Alice, Diak, Inawe, Incognitus, Mike, Cizinec, Francis, Anthony, Fr. Don, Amado, Bob-Theophan, Angela of Glasgow, Hritzko, Neil, Iconophile, Ed, Fr. Dcn John, the Administrator and others too numerous to mention (the painkillers are wreaking havoc with my memory!) will bear all, as you've always done.

So, develop a thick skin y'all . . . in other words, do as I say, and not as I did.

Don't surrender this Forum to the trouble-makers. It is your forum and you are all "moderators" in effect. If someone causes you trouble, band together and tell them off - in a Christian way, of course.

Remember what the good people of Constantinople did with Patriarch Nestorius . . .

And those who cause trouble here do not compare, in the least, with Patriarch Nestorius!

I still come here to read your posts and to learn about this or that.

This forum possesses the kind of information that one cannot find elsewhere, not in many books or journal articles.

So don't lose heart!

And please remember that I wasn't a victim (there, I've said it - I hope the Administrator was sitting down for that one! ).

I hope others here who, like me, are the source of upset and offence will truly imitate me and remove themselves from the forum and WITHOUT having to be told to do so by the administrator or his moderators.

Anyway, there is always a danger for me to come here as I find there is a fine line between "lurker" and "poster."

Hopefully, I haven't overstepped it in either direction and my apologies to the Administrator and the Moderator for this post which is only meant as a point of information - and also of encouragement to others here (if I have, then you can always deregister me you know! ).

God bless you all and keep faith with one another in this Christian forum!

Alex

Hi Tammy,

Welcome back! You have been missed.

Incognitus, thanks for posting the recipe.


Mary Jo

Dear Incognitus,

I have discovered your true identity! You are the Patron Saint of Chocoholics!

Recipe looks delightful!

Gaudior, preparing to bake this weekend

Dear Guadior - do let us know how your torte turns out.
Incognitus