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antonius,

Tell us about the avatar. Is that Pittsburgh? I'm glad we don't use the novus ordo.

Dan L

My understanding is that the Holy Father faces East, not the people, because that is the direction the altar faces at St. Peter's. The popes faced that direction because it was East. It had nothing to do with the people, who originally faced East also.

The Holy Father may face East. I do not know the orientation of the outdoor Mass that he celebrates. Without a doubt at St Peter's main altar he faces East which has him facing the people.

I haven't attended a papal Mass, but what I see on TV (at Christmas midnight Mass at St Peter's for instance) he faces the assembly (East) while offering Holy Mass.

Those of you on the Forum who have attended a papal mass can validate this.

I'm not trying to argue, I'm looking for orthodox Catholic liturgical practice.

Paul

"Regarding the issue of St. Peter's Basilica. I likewise understand this was how it was, however there is another tidbit I have heard as well -- which would be great to confirm. Some have said that when the time came for the liturgy of the Eucharist, not only did the Holy Father face east at the altar, but likewise all the people turned and faced east. Whether that is mere legend or fact I know not. It would be interesting to find out. I imagine it is factual from at least some period, but whether it was occuring immediately before the Second Vatican Council, I know not."

This piece of liturgical fiction was not bandied about until after Vatican II. If you look at any pre-Vatican II liturgical studies, they all make note that facing east was normative for the priest even for in churches like St. Peter's, which were built with the apse the West end of the building, causing him to face the people. None make any claim the peopel did likewise. Imagine the absurdity of the people turning their backs to the Our Lord in the Eucharist or the priest who will be giving numerous blessings throughout the Mass. The idea is laughable. If one favors facing East vs the people fine, but don't creat fcitions to support your view when there is ample credible information to back one up.

Fr. Deacon Lance

The Holy Father faces East in every public Mass I have seen him celebrate in St. Peter's, or elsewhere. Interestingly enough, however, he faces East, away from the people, in his personal chapel which has the altar against the apse. Whether this is simply to accomdate the space of the small chapel, unwillingness to renovate it for historical reasons, or the Pope's personal preference I do not know.

Fr. Deacon Lance

A tremendous article on the subject, by Cardinal Ratzinger.

http://www.adoremus.org/0500-Ratzinger.html

Priest Thomas

Klaus Gamber stated that the altar at St. Peter's remains where it was in the old church, and that the new church is larger and doesn't exactly follow the footprint of the original church. Gamber also stated that the Holy Father and the people faced East during the Liturgy of the Eucharist, but that the people did not stand directly in front of the altar. They stood on the sides. Evidence is also presented that in the original basilica, the altar area had a wall similar to Eastern churches between it and the people. Some of the photographs and archaeological evidence in the book "the Bones of St. Peter" by John Walsh shows the layout of the orgiginal building. Unfortunately, I loaned that Gamber book to a friend and don't have it at hand to lift quotes from.

Dear Fr Deacon Lance,

I have read about the Pope's private chapel, as you desribed it, in an account of his daily life at the Vatican.

Paul

Just to put my two cents in here; I was one of the deacon's who assisted the Holy Father when he celebrated Mass at the Race Track in Queens, New York. The altar was set up so the Pope would face the people in the seating arena. I don't think anybody thought about facing it East, cause then the Holy Father might have his back or side to the congregation.

By the way, it was a thrilling day and I was able to go up to the upper level of the arena and distribute Holy Communion to hundreds of worshippers! My wife had a front seat on the lower level!

God love you!
John

I just finished reading about the Masses celebrated by Fr. Fessio at the Ave Maria University.

He celebrates Mass 2 times a day, twice weekly in Latin, and a High Mass on Sunday.

It is not the Indult Mass, but the Novus Ordo celebrated in Latin, with Gregorian Chant, facing East and using the Roman Canon.

He calls it the Mass of Vatican II, because he believes it corresponds very closely to what the Council intended.

Anyone interested regarding Fr. Fessio he is at:

www.ignatiusinsight.com [ignatiusinsight.com]

james

Dear Fr Thomas,

I read Cardinal Ratzinger's work. While his historical and theological scholarship is sound, in the end he only offers his preference (opinion) for the priest and assembly facing East. I did't read Cardinal Ratzinger cite the GIRM, Latin Code of Canon Law or other Papal document. With all due respect to Cardinal Ratzinger, he does not speak with the authority of the Roman Church.

Earlier on this thread it was said, GIRM 299 "...Mass can be celebrated as it [sic] facing the people, which is deisirable wherever possible".

Lord, to whom shall we go?

Paul

In Western Liturgy we have specific colours to each period in Liturgical Calendar as follows:
White - Easter,Xmas and Saints
Purple - Lent and Advent
Red - Whitsunday and Martyrs
Green - Ordinary Time.

I�d like to know if there�s something similar in Eastern Liturgy.

Nelson,

Welcome to the Forum.

Marshall asked virtually the identical question as yours, almost exactly a year ago. See Orthodox Liturgical Colors for an excellent discussion of the subject and the differences between East and West in this regard.

Many years,

Neil

Dear Neil.

I gently thank for your attention.

God bless you.

Thanks again. I think it�s important to inform that in Western Liturgy, light pink is worn by the clergy in the 3rd Sunday of Lent and 2nd Sunday of Advent as a form of bringing hope and refreshment for the penance.