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Dear djs


if you are talking about catholic communion, biscuits (sorry I cannot find another metaphorical word for Hostie) into blood and flesh miraculously, then I may tell you that Hostie itself is a breach of tradition, as well as it is partaking only of bread and not of wine of lay people.


Resurrection is not a roman catholic property, which you can put against others.


We are talking about the miracles that accompany actions of those churches which claim to be the true inheritors of what Christ consituted when He was in this life. Holy Fire is the Greatest I said in the sense that it occures visibly for the eyas of flesh in the presence of a multitude christians, during a liturgical service, and that it rehappens each year at the same time in alomost the same manner through the same office holder, the orthodox patriarch.

Might I suggest that some sort of competition to determine what God's greatest miracle is might not be the most useful topic of discussion?

"How marvelous are Thy works, O Lord; Thou hast made all things in wisdom!"

Incognitus

It seems to me that you may be looking for reconciliation by proslytizing and coverting. I suggest you be very careful.

Besides the fact that since the 1990's at Balamand, the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, Bartholomew, and the Pope of Rome, John Paul II, (of blessed memory) agreed that we are 'sister churches' and that we should not prosletyse to each other, this forum will not tolerate it.

Your country and people have suffered under the yoke of communism. I rejoice when people like you rediscover their religious patrimony of Orthodox CHRISTIANITY. Orthodoxy has many ways available to you to go on your path to Theosis. Orthodoxy is a religion of humility to the will of God and to the image of Christ in all others. I resent those who have HIJACKED it in order to make it a religion of triumphalism and polemics. Seek first the Kingdom of God, and through your actions people will come to know Christ. What good is it if someone joins what he is told is 'the true Church' but his heart is not in the right place?

I will be following your discussions here carefully. Feel free to discuss and debate matters of theology and praxis, but be very careful when treading on the waters of 'the true Christian faith'. Christ did not endure the awful crucifixion for only one group of believers and I will not tolerate this line of thinking if it gets out of hand.

In His Holy Name,
Alice, Moderator

??????? Figure that out.

Dear Arbannon you said:

"Miracle signs of true faith, like the Sacraments, are not given because of moral dignity and wortheness of the one who ministers them, but because constiuting the true office of the church."

I say:

Yet Our Lord said: "You will know the tree by the fruit it bears". In that sense, if the fruits are unworthy, then what is the tree?

Mind you I am not condemning the Orthodox Church, but rather I think it has failed because it has not reached people on the most elemental level. Too many Orthodox bash others with comments such as 'we are the true Church', without trying to open the hearts of people towards God, and allowing His Grace to enter in whichever 'He' wants it to.

Isn't this what 'cults' do?

You said:

"No doubt, greeks, morally, have done (or might have done) many mistakes during history, like every other nation. This is out of this topic, I think."

I say:

You say this, yet at the same time you are condemning the Papacy and Catholic Church, not realizing that it too has made mistakes.

The best thing is to study up on the Roman Catholic Church. Read the lives of our saints and read the lives of their saints. You'll find them quite similar.

Don't condemn or judge them for this or that, because doing so might merely be a paranoia on your part...in other words, you would be seeing them through your own eyes, and that would be a bad reflection on yourself.

Instead look at them with an objective eye. One that will not presume that they are 'arrogant' and 'evil', but rather that they are a Church as we are and that the situations they had to deal with might have been completely different than the one's we had to deal with. We had different histories, languages and circumstances you know?

As for the 'minor' differences, they will probably never be solved because we think in 'Greek' ways, and they 'think' in Latin ways. Languages make a big difference. The end result though is the same because I really don't think God intended everyone to be Greek....heaven forbid! (I say this as one that knows the Greeks quite well).

Zenovia

Arbanon,

Hostie? Biscuits? Shame on you.

Also, my dear friend, many of us here are Catholic, yet we receive the Eucharist under both species of wine and bread, and the bread is leavened. In other words, we receive it in a manner identical to the Orthodox. (Not that leavened vs. unleavened bread is really that much of an issue; there was variation on this even when the churches were united.)

Let us not be hasty and inconsiderate in our obvious zeal.

God bless,
Jason

Dear All,
Had a native speaker of English, and a practicing Christian into the bargain, referred to "Hostie" and "biscuits" I would also have been offended. However, the writer is not a native speaker of English, so it behooves us to take that into account.

For future reference, a neutral term is "wafer". "Host" (plural "hosts") is acceptable, but since it actually means "Victim" some might prefer not to use it. If one wants to be terribly correct, one may say "unleavened bread".

Incognitus

Dear All,Had a native speaker of English, and a practicing Christian into the bargain, referred to "Hostie" and "biscuits" I would also have been offended. However, the writer is not a native speaker of English, so it behooves us to take that into account.


Dear Incognitus,

You are quite right about the above and that is why I did not mention it in my Moderator's post to our Albanian brother Arbanon.

In Christ,
Alice

P.S. By the way, I was recently wondering when we celebrate the feast day of St. Incognitus?!?

Dear Incognitus,

Thank you; you're quite right. As a result, I withdraw my admonition so far, allowing for clarification. However, I still stand firm on the point about leavened bread and communion under both species.

Thanks, and God bless,
Jason

And we're glad to have you. If you just give us a chance believe me you'll see that we Latins are not as pompous as you might have been led to believe. By all means if you have questions you wish to have answered about Latin Christianity you should feel free to post them too. Perhaps, if we are able to talk about things openly we can indeed come to a consenus about certain things.

When I wrote my post above,I felt Arbanon "miraculously" spelled plenty of other words correctly in his posts and his use of "Hostie" was deliberate. My apologies.

Until maybe a week or so ago, I had refrained from posting on the forum for some time because I'd often get the feeling I'm sticking my nose where it doesn't belong.

Godspeed to all.

Dear Bill,

I wanted to p.m. you but you have disabled that link.

Please don't feel offended.

Incognitus is a respected long time poster and as such, in this instance, I will defer to his better judgement...ofcourse, you may very well be correct in feeling offended. None of us, however, will really know that until the poster responds.

I think that I have sufficiently defended all Catholics on this forum in my last two Moderator posts to Arbanon.

Please, Bill, you are a MUCH valued poster here. Take a deep breath and continue "sticking your nose in" wherever and whenever you feel like it!

Asking forgiveness wherever I may have offended,
Alice

Dear Alice,
The Feast of Saint Incognitus occurs, of course, on 29 February - on the Old Calendar, naturally. He seems to have been an important influence on the vocation of Blessed Charles de Foucauld to imitate the hidden life of Our Lord.

Incognitus

Dont wanna loose you Bill...