www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Ecumenism, Diversity, and Political Correctness

I light my candle and stand beside my brother Alex outside the temple door.

It is difficult for me to find love in many of the words posted here.

Should our words and our estimation of our human brothers not reflect what we have been commanded to do by God?

Oh God, have mercy! Send forth Your Spirit to renew the hearts of the Faithful and to enlighten the Earth!

Fraternally,

Steve
JOY!

[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: Inawe ]

[ 01-04-2002: Message edited by: Inawe ]

I agree.

I think it best for all of us to acknowledge that (with the possible exception of the Quakers and the Amish type communities), everyone has had blood on their hands at one time or another. We should all ask forgiveness.

I also think that we need to recognize that the theologies (and histories) of the various groups are going to be in conflict at one point or another. Otherwise the different groups would never have been developed.

Hurling quotes back and forth serves no purpose but to increase blood pressure for there will always be 'something else to say'. And I'm not sure that truth can be found without a LOT of study -- and dare I say it -- prayer.

Blessings!

Dear Inawe and Dr. John,

As I come from a kind of, well, uptight, conservative background, I wanted to try and respond to your posts with a more "with it" tack.

And so I'll say, "Right on, guys! You're the man, Inawe! You're cool, Dr. John!"

(How's that?)

Happy Christmastide!

Alex

In the Name of God....

Not the Islam I know...

by Arif Rafiq

www.muslimresource.com/article_arafiq.shtml [muslimresource.com]

Blessings upon all the believers of the Christian, Jewish, Sikh, Jain, Buddhist, and Muslim communities who gathered together for prayer and service to the homeless in my "neighborhood."

These are the fine folks who get the job done and are certainly the most active and positive members of our greather community.

If there is such a human entity known as "movers and shakers" of the Lord, these folks qualify for the esteemed title.

May all neighborhoods and communities be blessed by such beautiful souls.

Salaam in the Beloved One and Lover of Mankind.

Abdur Islamovic

[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: Abdur Islamovic ]

As Christians we believe that love will conquer our enemies, that is, transform their hatred or erroneous thoughts into good thoughts.

To believe that there is one God does not however necessarily mean that all who believe in one God are united or have the same views or understanding. How often have "Christians" killed each other over interpretation of Scripture? If a moslem tells me that he worships the same God as I do. I tell him that I worship a Trinitarian God. That the moslem is divine and a child of God, I agree. But that he is equally right in his understanding, belief and practices, I do not. Is this hatred, intolerance? No it is simply expressing the truth. I believe we must be honest in our dialogues, respect the other person's opinion, but not automatically accept it in order to appear all-embracing and 'ecumenical'.
For me personally the word 'ecumenism' has no meaning in these times. Historically it did, but in matters of faith I find it redundant.

Yours in Christ,
Father Serafim[URL=http://fatherserafim.info]

Father Serafim,

Let me welcome you to the forum and also thank you for your reply.

Your reply has made much sense to me and has helped me "lift the fog" off of this issue.

In Christ,
David

Dr. John wrote: "I think it best for all of us to acknowledge that ... everyone has had blood on their hands at one time or another. We should all ask forgiveness."


Interpretation of scripture is in the eyes of the beholder. Many men have used Ephesians' dictate that wives must be "submissive to their husband" (or give "matrimonial obedience" per the now defunct Byzantine marriage "vows") as an excuse to treat them less than cows. Often ignoring the following instruction to husbands that they must treat their wives like their own bodies, the hand-picked bible verse has been used to do horrible things to 50% of humanity in the name of religion. What does this have to do with the history of bloodbaths in religion? Quite simply, we used (err, abused) the Holy Writ for our own agendas and ends.

Agreed. What really scares me is the 'pick and choose a Bible verse' approach to formulation of theology. Scary.

For me, the one 'verse' is the one where the Lord is asked the 'greatest commandment' (apparently of the 10) in order to get Him to commit to one or another school of Jewish theology.

He, of course, confounded the questioner with the "love God, love one's neighbor' response.

For me, there are really no other relevant verses in Scripture. This is the core message. The rest is just 'commentary'.

Blessings!

But aren't we thankful for the commentary?

Dan L

Dr John,
Once again you have confused me.

You said, Agreed. What really scares me is the 'pick and choose a Bible verse' approach to formulation of theology. Scary.

I agree with this, I was once very guilty of this, in my "Born-Again" days.

But then you go on to say, For me, the one 'verse' is the one where the Lord is asked the 'greatest commandment' (apparently of the 10) in order to get Him to commit to one or another school of Jewish theology.

He, of course, confounded the questioner with the "love God, love one's neighbor' response.

For me, there are really no other relevant verses in Scripture. This is the core message. The rest is just 'commentary'.

Isn't this the exact thing you said that is scary to you? The "pick and choose a Bible verse approach"?????

For me it would have to be 2 Timothy 3:16-17;

All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

All scripture is inspired, not just "commentary".

In Christ,
David

David,

I agree with you. ALL scripture not just this interest groups or that interest groups. You have nailed it my friend.

Dan Lauffer

If the Scripture says: "this is the first and greatest commandment, you shall love the Lord your God with your whole soul, your whole mind and your whole strength; and the second commandment is like unto it: you shall love your neighbor as yourself."

How can anything else take the 'top dog' position? These are Christ's words. In my understanding, "first and greatest" means 'number one' - - no ifs ands or buts. Everything else must (perforce the Lord's words) be in an interpretational mode.

Simple. Straightforward. Uncomplicated.

And: there's no question of what Christ means.

Blessings!

Dr. John,

For the nine years I was a priest, that verse was quoted in almost every sermon I preached. We cannot stress it too much. Jesus himself said that all the law and all the prophets are contained in that. And as he told the woman who washed his feet with her tear and dried them with her hair...those who love much, much will be forgiven. That is what Christianity means to me...loving as much as we can and leaving anything else in God's capable hands.

Don

Thanks for the comment Brother Don. I remember during theology studies getting very involved in all the brouhaha and classes and spiritual formation. And, in all this miasma, I literally asked myself one day: "What the hell am I doing here? If I'm going to be a priest/evangelizer, what's my job description?"

And I (being part German) looked to the most explicit "orders" given by the Savior. And He said: "This is the FIRST...." And I thought: Yup. Here's the answer. All the other stuff is subservient to this command. And as I investigated further, I came to realize, all the rest of Scripture is practical guidance on how to do this one basic command.

I am not "picking and choosing" verses; I studied the Scripture and (hopefully) found the core command and have worked to understand how all the other material points to this "greatest commandment". Didn't the Lord mean "greatest" when He said it? And, if it's "greatest", then how can one go elsewhere.

Blessings!