www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Metropolitan Basil has been to Houston!

Hey Administrator,
Happy Monday to you! I think you've made a good point. One thing I've noticed is that some RC men talk about "looking into" Eastern Churches with the assumption that they might pursue priesthood without having made any real effort to understand Eastern theology. Also, I am thinking about the flame war that erupted on the thread about "Latinizations" and some of the universalist-Roman assumptions that bred misunderstanding there. Therefore, I think your point about RC dissidents thinking about using the Eastern Churches (without really embracing the teaching to be found) is a good one.
However, I also think that you may be overly optimistic, especially with your 10 year framework. Are you saying that within 10 years, the Ruthenian Catholics are going to have ordained married priests that "started from scratch" rather than came out of some other tradition (already ordained) by conversion? I would love to see that happen but right now, from what I know, it seems wildly optimistic. Do you know things regular guys don't know? In this conversation with him that I keep referring to, the Metropolitan sure seemed a lot more "closed" than you think the situation may portend. You and I must agree that the first such married priests will NOT be RC converts (at least recent ones), right? Do you mean to say that you think the married priests will come from the now expanding diaconate? (I guess that could be possible and might fit your ten year estimate).
KH

Dear KH,

No need to worry.

In ten years, the UGCC will have many English language parishes in North America with married priests from all sorts of backgrounds.

Even Ruthenian ones

I think our Church can use more "with it" Ruthenian married priests who know "where it's at"

Don't you?

Alex

Dear Alex,

Are there any at this time? Married Ruthenian priests in North America I mean.

In Christ,
Anthony

Ken,

Thanks for the post.

I do think that within ten years there will be two or three married candidates presenting for priestly ordination who have �started from scratch�. I also think it likely that these individuals will be �cradle� Byzantine Catholics.

Before that, however, I think that there will be a small handful of men who are cradle Byzantine Catholics and who are also former seminarians that left seminary to get married. I don�t know how many (if any) of these men still feel a vocation to service as a priest but most would make ideal candidates. If we consider the age group of 50 and older many of these men have demonstrated that 1) they have stable marriages, 2) their children are older (if not out of the house) 3) their presence in our parishes is well known and 4) they are more likely to be financially secure since the priesthood doesn�t really pay a just wage at the present (but this is another issue!).

I do not see the renewed deaconate as a regular source of priests. There are, no doubt, one or two that may be called to serve as priests in future years but it would be wrong to look at the deaconate as a testing ground for potential priests. The vocation is different.

Admin

Dear Anthony,

There are married Slovak Greek-Catholic priests up here who do say they are Ruthenians.

I've also met some married priests in my UGC Church who say they are Ruthenians and not Ukrainians - when our new bishop was consecrated.

Doesn't the Ruthenian Church in the U.S. have married priests?

Alex

Dear Administrator,

But we have had cases where married deacons advanced to the priesthood as happened in Saskatoon's UGC Eparchy not too long ago.

Vladyka Filevich ordained a married deacon because he had come to know him so well that he felt it would have been wrong not to etc.

Perhaps the problem is that bishops not used to married priests need to change their attitudes toward them.

Perhaps they think of married priests as being "worldly" because they have a wife and children with secular cares etc.

Getting to know their married deacons over time just might be the thing to help them get over this.

Our Blessed Vladyka Isidore Borecky always said he LOVED married priests - he never had any trouble with them, he said.

"And why should I, when they have their own Patriarch, Metropolitan and Bishop in the person of their Presbyteras living with them right at home to keep them in check?!" said Vladyka with a smile.

He had a nice smile!

Alex

Alex,
Are you new actively recruiting from the Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic Church?

Trying to pilfer our possible vocations?

Wouldn't one need to offically change churches to be ordained in the UGCC when they do not belong there to begin with? Isn't changing churches for the sole reason of being "ordained" a bad reason to change?

But if this is acceptable then I say go with the Melkites as they are even farther along than the UGCC! :p


David, the Byzantine Catholic

Dear David,

Well, the UGC would welcome you with open arms and we have English-language parishes - with many more to come!

Patriarch Slipyj NEVER assumed the Ruthenian Church to be separate from the UGCC - in fact the official description of our Church under him is: The Particular Ukrainian Catholic Church of the Byzantine-Ukrainian Rite (Greco-Ruthenian).

If you want to come over later on, no one will say anything if you don't . . .

The Melkites are great, but there will be many more opportunities for married priests with us, especially for Ruthenians with even a little bit of Ruthenian identity who would relate better to an Eastern Slavic Church.

I've seen such priests and they are wonderful - fit in our parishes like a hand in a glove.

So I pray that you become a UGC priest one day - in an English parish of course!

Alex

Admin,

While I agree that the vocation is different and that the diaconate should not be a farm club for the presbyteriate, there are unquestionably deacons who felt that to be their only prospect for service in a Church where a married priesthood was not accepted - and, given the opportunity, would ask for ordination. Also, those whose situation has changed since their ordination, with changes in circumstances - such as children now being grown - that, in their minds, might have precluded even thinking about it at an earlier point in life.

Many years,

Neil

Dear Neil,

Yup, you got it, Pontiac!

And I know some married priests who spent a few years in the diaconate - thinking they would be Eternal Deacons until the situation changed.

They bring to their new priestly role a wealth of pastoral experience, so those deacon years weren't wasted in the least!

I hope you would consider that vocation in future!

Alex

I think this is news to our Metropolitian and Bishops, as they are not part of the UGCC synod.

I believe that Rome does think of us as a separate Church, no matter what any major archbishops might say.

Yes, I do see this, the Melkites are middle eastern and I do find it hard to relate to them, but my pastor, who is of Ruthenian descent, seems to find no problem with this.

I am called to be celibate, so the marriage issue is moot for me.

As for an English parish, I have nothing against using another language in the liturgy, I just am against the exclusive use of another language.

As I have stated before, the Melkite parish I attend now uses English, Greek, and Arabic.

It is mostly in English, with some of the Lord have mercy's in Greek and Arabic, the Grant it O Lord is in Greek.

There is also the following prayer.

Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us.
(Greek) Aghios o Theos, Aghios iskhiros, Aghios athanatos, eleison imas.
(Arabic) Qudduson Illah, Qudduson ilqawi, Qudduson il ladhi, la yamout irhamna.
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and forever. Amen.
Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us.


I could even take 50/50 if I knew the language, as I believe the priest must know the languages in use.


David, the Byzantine Catholic

Dear David,

Yes, I understand it is an "unwritten rule" for all the Catholic Churches to have some part of their liturgy in the Greek (?).

We too have the Trisagion in Greek at Hierarchical Divine Liturgies.

You don't have to be married if you don't want to be, Big Guy!

Anyway, let me know which church you decide to go with . . .

Alex

Thank you for the comments on meeting "our" Metropolitan.

Yes, we need to all pray for more priests and more monks and nuns. I think Our Lord is at work here, because the only place that "talks" about vocations is this FORUM. Let's encourage our respective Eparchy Vocation Directors to "talk" more about and promote vocations to the priesthood and monastic life.

David,

"the Melkite parish I attend"

By your location in your profile, I'm guessing you must attend St Nicholas. Never realized that Father Ken is of Ruthenian descent.

Many years,

Neil

Neil,
I am not 100% sure but I know he is not arabic/middle eastern descent.

I am going by two comments he has made, maybe Terry can chime in here too.

1) I believe he is from Scranton, PA area with relatives in the Cleveland area.

2) One day at church he talked about how at one time many mercenaries from Eastern Europe traveled to the Middle East to fight. After the wars they were not allowed to return. Fr Ken made the comment that maybe we (he included himself in this) might have relatives there. So we could be Melkites.


David, the Byzantine Catholic