www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West "Offer it up"

I am currently going though some difficulties.

A friend of mine, who is a Latin Catholic, suggested the following, "If its in the Eastern vocabulary to 'offer it up' - it may do a world of good. Perhaps joining it to the sorrow of Jesus before the Sanhedrin (if that isn't too 'Roman' a thought!)"

Is this a western idea, or is it compatable with eastern spirituality?

If not why? What is the foundations for this practice?


Your brother in Christ,
David

Dear David,

So far today, I've been contradicted four times by others, and have been said to be on the side of the Moscow Patriarchate.

What is it that's upsetting you?

"Offer it up" you mean one's daily work and troubles? Is that what he means? If so, that's perfectly Eastern as well.

And I don't have to "offer" things like the accusation above.

You can have it directly!

Alex

Alex,
I don't know what your talking about but then I have gotten more picky in what I read on forums.

I think what she means is offering up our suffering and uniting it with Christ's suffering.

This is something I have heard before. But to me it makes it look like Christ's suffering on the Cross is insufficient.


David

Dear David,

At which point did you not know what I was talking about?

The Divine Liturgy invites us, several times, to offer our whole lives to Christ God.

By offering ourselves, including our suffering, to Christ, we fulfill a basic priestly role whose very nature is to make spiritual sacrifices.

As we offer everything, including our lives, to God, He, in turn, blesses and transfigures all this and returns it to us.

He also uses our sufferings, joined to those of Christ Crucified, to touch others in their despair and want.

We are to pray for others and our suffering can become an integral part of that prayer, something that radically transforms the quality and nature of our prayer for others.

Self-sacrifice and prayer for others is what we are called to do as Christians.

As priests, prophets and kings, we are empowered in Christ the High Priest to make our offering and to call down the Holy Spirit through the Name of Jesus in an unending Epiclesis that transfigures the Cosmos.

Alex

Dear DavidB:

You said:

I think what she means is offering up our suffering and uniting it with Christ's suffering.

This is something I have heard before. But to me it makes it look like Christ's suffering on the Cross is insufficient.

Your observation also mirrors that of Protestants.

The Catholic Church, i.e., the Western side, has always taught that Christ's sufferings were sufficient, of course.

However, St. Paul writes in Col. 1:24: "I find my joy in the suffering I endure for you. In my own flesh I fill up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ."

This signifies that Christ's sufferings are said to be "lacking" because God demands that we continue to suffer for our sins even after they have been forgiven.

What it comes down to is Christ does all the work, even though we participate in that work. Christ's sufferings are sufficient, but they are applied to us over time: through the sacraments, doing good works, and doing penance for our sins.

This "emphasis" by Roman Catholics on the passion and suffering of our Lord, Jesus Christ, is one of the "distinguishing" marks of western Catholicism.

AmdG

[QB]Is this a western idea, or is it compatable with eastern spirituality?

If not why? What is the foundations for this practice?{/QB]


David...

�Offer it up�

To understand this we must first look at the extreme and very public.

In the Roman Catholic Church we can look at Padre Pio
http://members.aol.com/goodyburk/padrepio.html
And St Therese of Lisieux
http://www.ocd.pcn.net/teresita.htm

In the Russian Orthodox Church we can look at the �Beloved Sufferer� Mother Macaria.
http://www.stinnocent.com/seraphim/books/blvsuff.htm

Offering up discomfort or suffering has its foundation in two aspects. Joining ourselves to the suffering of Christ and the communion of saints.

It is closely tied to my favorite subject, the reality of a living and daily Providence and our knowing cooperation with it.
http://www.thegenesisletters.com/Providence/Caussade/Default.htm

The Protestant concept, that Christ�s suffering was sufficient and that we need not suffer, is a misconception. First, on what and why his sufferings were sufficient for� and secondly on what and why of the �lacking� that St. Paul talks about.

Simply put, Christ�s sufferings were sufficient for the justice of God the Father. Jesus, sinless himself, took all sin, of all times (past, present and future) upon himself. In as much as any man who has sinned cannot see God (cannot be in the image of God, and sin is a disruption of our union with God) the repair of a sinner�s sins, and repair of the damage sin has done to the sinner, is accomplished by God through his application of justice to the sinner. It is part and parcel of the forming (�Let us make man in our image�) done by the potter (God) to the clay (us).

In a most public and historical way, Jesus took upon himself the sins of all Israel. At the historical adoption of Israel (�They shall be to me as sons, and I shall be to them as a father.�) in the event of the Exodus� rebellion against Providence was dealt with swiftly, and as stubborn as the Hebrews were, repentance came upon the fact of justice (perceived as punishment). Wars, exiles, and internal strife were used by God to apply justice to Israel when needed. (�I shall tear down the fence of my garden and let it go to ruin.�). The application of justice and punishment repaired the breach between God as Providence - and the people.

As time passed, Israel as a whole, faded from responding to God�s justice. Suffering, just did not turn their hearts back to God anymore. The suffering that God had been sending became a - burden to carry and no longer seen as a punishment of repair. When anyone saw a prophet coming.. they would groan "And what is the burden of the Lord today?" because they grew tired of the punishments.

By the time of the later prophets God would say �You are bruised and bleeding from head to toe! Open wounds, not treated, and still you do not turn back to me! Where else can I strike you!!??� (paraphrased). So the promise came that God himself would send a King of Israel - who WOULD accept the entire justice (wrath of God) in the stead of Israel - and within himself repair all. The suffering servant. This servant would endure the entire wrath that rightly, was due to Israel and its people. Since it is human sin, it is human nature (the Son of Man nature) which must endure the �wrath� or justice that repairs (or re-establishes). In the early church this was called Restoration - and that is the proper name of St. John�s book we call Apocalypse (which name Apocalypse is really a type of literature). St. John�s book is the Book of Restoration and retells the history of Israel from Adam to Christ under Old Testament imagery and culminates with the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ (the Seventh Bowl being poured out - the bowl being the brass laver in which the blood of the sacrifice was captured, brought into the Holy of Holies, and poured out at the base of the Ark, and sprinkled on the Ark, on the Day of Atonement). And the New Jersulalum being the establishment of the Catholic Church (no schism yet).

There is only one human nature (just as there is only one dog nature, one bird nature, etc..) but many humans. Jesus shares with us - our one human nature. So when he repaired within his own human nature for our sins (in as much as the covenant given to Moses was extended to us gentiles through Jesus) then his human nature (having now the right to all grace) may extend to our human nature the grace that is his. (That is not exactly in correct theological words). The Providence that comes to us is the Providence that is due Christ (he looks at us and sees his Son).

Since each man has free will, and God will not violate our free will� what Christ has won for us in his own human nature - can only be applied to us (as individuals) to the limits of our free will to accept and cooperate with it and Providence.

It was as representing us, as High Priest, when Jesus said �Let this cup pass from me.� In as much as Jesus joined himself to us (by taking on our human nature) and said to Saul �Why do you persecute ME?� when we know Saul was persecuting Christians� it was for this real union with us that Jesus spoke up for us (not for himself) and spoke what WE would ask God (�Let this cup of wrath and justice pass me by!!�). And Jesus also added for us "But not my will, but your will be done." Christ's will was totally united to God, it is our will, which hesitates and has been divided from God. Jesus was speaking for - us.

Let me put it this way. If I have a free gift for you, and lay it on my kitchen table and then go upstairs - and you come over and see the gift on the table (and I am not around) and you steal it and run away - even though I had intended it to be yours - you cannot own it (even if it is in your hands) because by your will you have made it a stolen object. In this same way, what Paul says is �lacking� is our own free will to accept the repair that God must do to us - the reapir Christ has done for us - but not yet to us. That bears repeating... the repair that Christ has done for us but not yet to us - until we accept it ourselves.

Sanctification, for us, is a repair to our spiritual (and eventually our physical) natures. It depends upon us if this repair is experienced as painful or a joy. This repair is done by the daily actions of Providence in its purpose to �Make man in our image� in fact the Hebrew really says �Let us FORM man in our image� - hammering a new form upon an existing substance (again, the origin of the potter forming the clay that the prophets used).

Eventually, our sanctification (if we have the will to accept it) must be done to us with our knowing cooperation with the actions of Providence. The gospel says �Peace to men of good will� and it is our will, to do God�s will, that accomplishes our free will part of the cooperation of santification.

Suffering, by itself, is suffering, and worth nothing. Suffering (or discomfort) as a result of enduring some event or situation that Providence has sent us - is sanctification. It is a hammer that re-creates us to the very depths of our subconscious.

Even those who are �victim souls� (have a vocation to suffer in themselves for others) have a duty to use their reason to avoid suffering. When the suffering or discomfort cannot be avoided then it is seen as something that Providence wishes us to suffer through (not for the sake of the suffering but for the sake of the repair).

We can suffer for our own sins (endure the repair) � or � we can endure suffering for the sake of others � in which case our suffering gains merit for us (repair) and grace for the other (not merit). The grace given to others is in the form of some Providential event (natural or supernatural) which purpose is to wake up, or assist in ways, that do not violate the persons free will.

In the spirituality of the East and West, all Christians occasionally suffer in common (normal) ways. Those who suffer in mystical ways - are appointed by God (Providence) to do so and we should not ask or seek extra-ordinary suffering (thinking we are gaining grace for others)because it is easy to foll ourselves.

In the RC, some have the habit of offering up the day for others. �Dear Jesus, I offer to you this day, may anything I need endure, be shared with so-and-so�� and the person keeps in mind that if troubles come that day they should pay more attention to responding in a gospel and spiritual way. This however may also include seeking justice. In other words, if we are wronged, instead of letting it go (a passive submission) Providence may be asking us to speak up and say the unpopular or have courage and seek justice. For example we may be placed in a situation where many people are saying how good aborthion is and downing priests because of recent scandals. It would be more comfortable for us just to keep quiet in this situation� and it may be a bit of suffering (discomfort) to us to instead say firmly (without arguing) our own conviction that abortion is wrong and most priests are sincere men who dispense Christ to us, practice real charity and have no part in recent newspaper sex scandals. All priest should not be condemned because of a few. The defense of the church, when called for, can be uncomfortable to do� just keep in mind we do not need to argue or win (God does not need us to do his battles for him) all we need do is calmly and firmly state the church (and our own belief) and leave the results of that to God.

A good little prayer for offering things up, may be like this (shorthen it to your own words once you understand it)�

�Jesus, this trouble has come to me, and I see no reasonable way to avoid it or fix it. I could avoid it by sinning, but I will not. Instead, I place myself into your Hands. I will endure what you wish me to endure. I will not seek revenge (upon the person who may have brought it)� because revenge is yours and it is You yourself who is using this person and situation to purify my soul. I abandon myself to Divine Providence (Your Will) and unite myself to the suffering of your Mother and Your church. May any graces gained today be shared with so-and-so. Amen.�

A word of warning. If you make this offering a morning habit (like many do) then please do not be surprised (or at least remember when it comes) that bits of trouble and discomfort may come during the day, out of nowhere, from time to time. The outcome of any situation (as bleak as it may look to our limited human minds) is entirely in the hands and under the control of Providence. Providence may reverse the whole situation, by surprise, in a day or two, if He wishes. But in any and all events, the end result is your own spiritual growth and good, and grace given (and you may not know about it) to others.

As saint Pual said - endurance produces holiness.

I am sorry I made it so complicated.

"He who proceeds without suffering will bear no fruit" Theophan the Recluse

Christ is Risen!

Although an Eastern Orthodox, I have read limited lives of the Saints in which the offering of their sufferings for other people or the intentions of others seems to be inferred. I do not think it is as prominent as we see in the Roman Catholic Church where we see many of Marian Visionaries suffering terrible illness and pain and later die sealing their testimony of their visions with their final witness as they lay dying.

As a social worker, when I worked with Hospice in El Paso Texas, I found it to be a great comfort to my patients to allow their Roman Catholic beliefs in suffering offer them a purpose in the suffering. Many of my patients were able to die a holy death because they offered their suffering to God for various intentions--they were void of anger and full of prayer as they prayed their Rosaries on their death beds not for themselves but for the intention of others. They seemed some how, happier than those who died in fear and anger. One sweet lady who was in her early 40s offered her suffering for the Sister of Charity who recently had lost their Hospital due to physicians who would no longer come to practice there because they did not allow abortions to be done at their hospital----about 2 years after her death, the Sister of Charity returned to El Paso and began to offer to the poor in the area free health clinics and home health services---I always felt that the offering of her sufferings had something to do with the Sisters of Charity return.

In conclusion, does Orthodoxy refer to offering ones sufferings ---yes, but it does not seem to be as clearly delineated as it is in the Roman Catholic Church. As such it seems to be practiced by certain shining lights of blessed suffers and saints in the Orthodox Church but does not seem to part of the dogmatic beliefs of orthodoxy.

Your brother in Christ,
Thomas

Dear Thomas,

Thank you for that beautiful post!

Well, I think that it is largely due to western Catholic devotions such as to Our Lady of Fatima (what did you think of my Akathist? ) that the practice mentioned by -Ray in terms of making the morning offering etc. and otherwise offering up one's suffering for others is promoted.

Whether Catholic or Orthodox, such offerings come from a soul generous "to a fault" and which has learned that even in the midst of its own suffering, the best way to deal with it is to reach out to others who suffer.

Our holiness is inextricably tied up in our seeking the sanctification of others.

St Seraphim of Sarov stated this very well when he said, "Achieve the spirit of peace, and a thousand souls will be converted around you."

Alex

"Offer it up" was one of the phrases frequently uttered by Josephine the Theologian (my 79-year-old mother) to her children growing up when we were faced with tedious, unpreferred, or distasteful tasks. It is one of those maxims I find myself turning to often as an adult. It strikes me as a particularly (but perhaps not exclusively) western Christian sentiment, and one that I recall hearing not only from my mother but from priests and nuns in my youth. However, I can't recall having heard it much lately. It is a message that would seem (sadly) to be diametrically opposed by the coventual wisdom of comtemporary western society at large....

[ 06-04-2002: Message edited by: Psalm 51 ]

Especially for Alex: It just occurred to me that the late King George VI was an example of "offer it up." I just watched the British docudrama on George and Elizabeth that aired on our PBS down here. You have to admire how Bertie, not keen to be king, assumed the duty to his people and country when it was cast off by his brother, and performed with exceptional grace. The Duke of Windsor certainly was not cast in a particularly favorable light, though....

Dear Psalm 51,

(My favourite Psalm, by the way!)

Yes, I remember seeing an interview with a British Rabbi on King George VI who talked about how he and his university colleagues went out of their way to attend his funeral in London.

And why? Not because the late King was particularly brilliant or dashing etc.

But simply because he did his duty.

A lesson is there for all of us!

Alex