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Dec 29th, 2019
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Joined: Mar 2002
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David, the UGCC has accepted plenty of students in various institutions who are non-Ukrainians or non-Ukrainian speakers. Some of these are also married and have been or will be ordained to the priesthood. The Romanian Eparchy likewise has ordained married men as have the Melkites. What's the BCC waiting for? 
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Dear Diak, I think David has a "thing" about Ukrainians, don't you?  His worst nightmare must be coming before the altar in Church about to be ordained a priest and he can't understand a word since everything is in Ukrainian . . . It would scare me too! Alex
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The groanings of the Holy Spirit which man cannot understand... 
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They'll get rid of the filioque,(at least in Parma) one of the biggest issues, but wont ordain married men? Go figure. Guess we'll only go so far in reclaiming our heritage.
It would be interesting to see what would have happened by now if Met. Judson was still here. Can anyone say"MARRIED PRIESTS"?
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Dear Etnick, SHHH! Not so loud! (Many of our Ukie parishes have the Filioque and a whole array of devotions that are "Latin." Who is better off?) Alex
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Dear David, Alex is not alone. Apparently, Metropolitan Michael of Winnepeg welcomes non-Ukrainians also. See this article: http://www.archeparchy.ca/archeparchy/announcements/ann_0036.htm Originally posted by DavidB, the Byzantine Catholic: Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
[b] Dear Anthony (Dragani)
How good to hear from you!
Don't worry, Big Guy, you will always be welcomed as a married Eastern Catholic priest in the Particular Ukrainian Catholic Church of the Byzantine-Ukrainian Rite (Greco-Ruthenian).
And that's the Gospel truth . . .
Alex
For someone who wants to hold on to the ethnicity it strikes me as strange that you are not only welcoming but almost recruiting non-ukrainians.
[/b]John Pilgrim and Odd Duck
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Isn't it the case that Canada essentially has no Carpatho-Rusyn hierarchy?
Except for a small Slovak eparchy, in the Byzantine-Slav tradition the UGCC may be the only game in town!
In Canada I should not be surprised that the ethnic components associated with the Byzantine Catholic Church in America would be part of the Ukrainian church. Probably the same for Australia.
So in a sense, the UGCC in Canada is very much a model of what many Byzantines in the U.S.A. (including myself) would like to see as one unified hierarchy, welcoming all ethnic groups.
Or am I missing something here?
Michael
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I guess where you live on the continent will greatly shape your views on matters. In Montreal there were many Rusyns who belonged to the UGCC. Those Rusyns who belonged to the Slovak Catholic Church were served by Ukrainian priests for as long as I can remember because of an acute shortage of clergy in the Slovak Church. I'm not sure if the UGCC priests served in Slavonic, Ukrainian, or Carpatho-Rusyn (very very similar to the Western Ukrainian dialect). I will ask Fr Hawryluk when I see him in two weeks. Bishop Isidore (Boretsky) always welcomed married priests within our parishes and I can't say we liked them more or less than the celebate clergy. All the priests had their good and bad characteristics. The fact that the UGCC had married clergy certainly did not upset the French Canadian Roman Catholic curia. But I do admit that Yury (Fr Hawryluk's grandson and my friend) did raise a few eyebrows during 'show-and-tell' at parochial school when spoke about his grandfather - the Catholic priest QUESTION: If the UGCC eparchy of Toronto (and Eastern Canada) was able to ordain married men (sometimes through the back door)then why didn't the Slovak Greek Catholic Eparchy of Toronto (& all of Canada) not do the same, and THEN export them to the Ruthenian Metropolia in the USA to relieve the acute shortage ? (The UGCC and SGCC bishops sure were good friends so I'm sure they at least discussed the issue.)
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Originally posted by Our Lady's slave of love: Not everywhere - must just be you informal Yanks
Here it is still very much"Thomas J Cardinal Winning "[ and we were [b]no allowed to get it wrong  ] and as at present "Keith Patrick Cardinal O'Brien"[/b] Originally posted by Deacon John Montalvo:
although it may have changed in everyday parlance, the protocol of Christian Name-Cardinal-Surname is still the official usage. Originally posted by DavidB, the Byzantine Catholic: I have heard this too but I find it hard to believe when all Vatican reports still go by the old styling.
Not to mention that the offical website of the UGCC uses it also. Deacon John, Anhelyna, and Daniel, Not to be contentious , but having checked the websites of several Cardinals. the style of Cardinal preceding the name seems much in vogue: Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O\'Connor, Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster, UK [ rcdow.org.uk] Cardinal Keith Patrick O\'Brien, Cardinal Archbishop of St. Andrews and Edinburgh, Scotland [ stmaryscathedral.co.uk] Cardinal Roger Mahoney, Cardinal Archbishop of Los Angeles, CA, USA [ cardinal.la-archdiocese.org] Also, the Vatican Press Office titles all Cardinals as such in its official biographies. An example: Biography of Cardinal Aloysius Matthew Ambrozic, Cardinal Archbishop of Toronto, Canada [ vatican.va] Cardinal Angelo Sodano, Vatican Secretary of State signs all documents in this style. See: Statements of His Eminence Cardinal Angelo Sodano, Vatican Secretary of State [ vatican.va] Admittedly, some other Vatican documents, e.g., those signed by Cardinals Ratzinger and Daoud, are still signed in the former style and, as Daniel notes, the UGCC site uses the older style. However, the vast weight of evidence suggests more than common parlance is at work here. The current editions of the Associated Press Style Manual, and those of the New York Times, the University of Chicago, and the U.S. Government Printing Office all dictate the usage Cardinal - Christian Name - Surname. I was going to go back through older editions of each and try to pinpoint when the change occurred, but they are boxed and not readily available, given the chaos already in place due to Christmas decorations. Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Dear Friends, And our UGCC in Canada has Romanian and Hungarian parishes - and these are always out for major events like the consecration of a new bishop and the like. People I attended church with all my life have, at some point, told me their true ethnic identity - Belarusyan, Russian, Polish, Czech, Bulgarian, Macdonian and the like. I've also seen some Ethiopians who have formally joined our Church. We also have Oriental priests and I understand that the chancellor for our Metropolia is Oriental (?). And as in the case of my priestly friend in St Catharines, Ont., about half of his parish is made up of traditional RC's who have learned the Liturgy in Ukrainian, and who participate more in parish life than the Ukies. (They still insist on crossing themselves from left to right though - like the Copts ). Alex
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Alex, actually that is Fr. Richard Soo and he is I believe the Vice Chancellor in Winnipeg. Fr. Richard used to assist regularly at St. Elias in Brampton. He is a great and holy man and one of the good Jesuits!
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Dear Diak, Yes, Fr. Soo! Fr. Robert Wong SJ is another one of the good Jesuits at Midland, Ontario, but is retiring from that post in the spring. That we have Oriental priests among us is, for me, another indication of the true Catholicity of our Kyivan Church - a Church that had missionaries in the Far East at the time of St Theodore of Smolensk. We also have some Tatar Saints! Alex
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Neil
Maybe we are just that bit more formal - I did get my knuckles rapped for using the wrong form of address for Cardinal Winning - and as a result I have never forgotten.
I ma told that Archbishoop Conti still uses white gloves - though I have not as yet seen this for myself.
Anhelyna
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Gee Alex,
I thought we WERE the Oriental Church.
So these priests are just comin' home.
Pass the won tons - I mean the pierogies please!
Cheerz,
Sharon
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Dear Sharon,
Yes, Chinese Christianity traces back to the Assyrian Church.
Bishop Henry Hill in his "Light from the East" discusses how the Assyrian Church had two Metropolitans and 20 bishops in Tibet alone in the ninth century during the T'ang Dynasty.
Our Queen Elizabeth II actually has roots in that Dynasty of long ago.
Alex
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