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[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: griego catolico ]
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by griego catolico: [QB][QUOTE]Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic: My wish is to travel to Mexico to venerate Our Lady of Guadalupe and see Her Shrine. May God grant me this! Dear Alex, Christ Is Risen!!! You may want to consider joining the annual Byzantine Catholic pilgrimage to the basilica of Our Lady of Gualudupe by the Ruthenian Catholic Eparchy of Van Nuys, CA. The first-ever Divine Liturgy at the basilica was on December 1997. Here is the link with an article on the first pilgrimage (it even includes a picture!): www.eparchy-of-van-nuys.org/docs/newsletter_9802.htm#Mexico [ eparchy-of-van-nuys.org] The pilgrimage takes place the week of Decenber 12th and lasts for about a week, so there are A LOT of people during that time, but it would be an awesome experience for you to be at a Divine Liturgy with fellow Byzantine Catholics before the icon "not made by human hands" of the Theotokos of Tepeyac. What a blessing that would be!!! You may want to e-mail the Eparchy of van Nuys for information. I hope this helps you. God bless you! griego catolico
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Here is something wonderful about Our Lady. Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida and his wife are Catholic. During the "chad" debates surrounding the confusing presidential election last year, Jeb's wife made a pilgrimage to the shrine of Our Lady of Guadelupe and there committed the pro-life cause of her brother-in-law George Bush to Our Lady of Guadelupe, the Patroness of America and Advocate of the Aborted.
And our Blessed Mother responded. Do you know which day George Bush was finally declared to be the winner of the election?
December 12!!!
Also, George Bush's first international visit after being elected was to Mexico City. Nobody knows if he did or didn't go to the shrine.
From what I understand, Our Lady of Guadelupe is the Empress of the Americas, since she appeared pregnant denoting a new advent of Christ for the New World.
Regina Coeli ora pro nobis,
Marshall
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Alex,
I would not be afraid of traveling to Mexico City during the time of the feast. The sights and sounds in the plaza outside of the basilica are just as stirring as the Liturgy within. What a sight to see the "peregrinos" (pilgrims) make their way into the city, via foot, bicycle, etc.
[ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: bisantino ]
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Hector,
Thank you for your observations. You are right on the mark. There truly can be no other explanation for the Image of Guadalupe other than it is the work of the Almighty. Maria (I do prefer the Spanish and Latin version) is the first disciple of Jesus Christ and desires to lead people to her Son.
And, it is true that Maria appeared as an Indian/mestiza. My novia is a mestiza - with green Spanish eyes! She is from Cali, Colombia, and many there also honor Our Lady.
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Dear Friends,
How wonderful it is to be such excellent company - people devoted to Our Lady!!
A number of you have double posts - that's O.K., what you have to say bears repeating!
But just so you don't think the East Slavs are slouches in this department, the Ukrainian and Russian tradition of the veneration of the Mother of God includes more than 1,000 miraculous Icons, written up by Prof. Poselianin in his book that has been republished by Jordanville.
I have also been to Ukrainian Churches that had prayer services or "Molebens" before the Icon of Our Lady of Guadalupe.
Your references to the "Mantle of Protection" of the Mother of God strikes an Eastern cord since the Byzantine East is very devoted to Her Mantle and the little embroidered towels on Her icons in our homes and churches signify Her Mantle.
Your Scapular is also a symbol of Her Mantle, and I particularly like the devotion to Our Lady of Mt. Carmel.
It is a true Byzantine icon kept at Naples, Italy and known as "La Bruna" or "Our Lady of Naples."
There is also a miraculous icon of "Our Lady of the Scapular" called this by the Orthodox at a former RC Carmelite monastery, now in Orthodox hands, in Ukraine in the village of Horodyschensk.
I think the Mother of God is the greatest ecumenical theologian.
She unites her children in praise of Her privileges as Mother of Christ our Saviour!
Alex
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
She unites her children in praise of Her privileges as Mother of Christ our Saviour!
Careful there, Alex, you almost sound like a Nestorian... :p
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Dear Catholicos, Spoken like a true Miaphysite!  You are right, of course, "Christotokos" was the term of choice by Nestorius. The Assyrians and RC theologians have agreed that either can be used since they both mean the same thing, even though the Assyrians reserved the Rite to use the term of their ancient Church and theological heritage. It must be nice to be so young and mentally alert all the time . . .  Alex
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The icon of Our Lady of Guadalupe is very interesting. When the Spaniards saw the image, they said she was "the virgin of Guadalupe" because there's one with that name in Extremadura, because according to them "they were similar" (the curious thing is that they're completely different, but I understand that the Spanish have never been... very brilliant).
Our Lady of Guadalupe is unique because the style of the image is not related with the Spanish and Western representations of the Virgin, and the icon is very Eastern.
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Dear Remie, Yes, thank you for that explanation. I have a copy of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Spain and it is remarkably different from the one in Mexico, I was wondering why the two had the same name! And the revealed image of Guadalupe is very Byzantine! It just goes to show you that the Western and Eastern Churches are both doing God's work. The West is doing it its way. And we're doing it His way! Alex
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>>But just so you don't think the East Slavs are slouches in this department, the Ukrainian and Russian tradition of the veneration of the Mother of God includes more than 1,000 miraculous Icons, written up by Prof. Poselianin in his book that has been republished by Jordanville.<<
Dear Alex,
Christ is Risen!
I am interested in knowing more about this book. What is the title and to what address may I write to to obtain a copy?
God bless you,
griego catolico
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Alex: I didn't mean that BC, OO or EO where not "rich" in terms of blessings of Our Lady through Her icons. In fact I am aware of the fact that you have many miraculous icons of Her and Our Lord. I personally appreciate the great beauty that, for example, the icon of Our Lady of Perpetual Help reflects. Remie's comment about the name of Our Lady is accurate. May be you could check the reasons why Her name became Guadalupe at this page: www.sancta.org/nameguad.html [ sancta.org] Blessings
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Dear Alex, Us Western Slavs (Poles, to be exact!) are no slouches in this department, either. Our Lady of Czestochowa is an Eastern Icon that has been treasured by the Polish people for centuries. Dr. Smith talked about it in detail in his book about the Image of Guadalupe. But, then, I'm sure you already knew that. The mantle in the Icon of Our Lady of Czestochowa is remarkably similar to the mantle worn by Maria in the Icon of Guadalupe. A coincidence? Another point that Dr. Smith made in his book is that in 1531, the Latin Church still used the Julian calendar. Adjusting for the change to the Gregorian calendar. The feast day of December 12 for Our Lady of Guadalupe would normally have been moved to December 22. How close to Christmas! One of my favorite Marian feast days did not take place this year in the Western Church. The Feast of the Annunciation, observed on March 25, was replaced by Monday of Holy Week. I don't know if the Eastern Churches celebrated it or not. When you think about it, March 25 is the day it all began. If anyone's interested - http://www.sancta.org/ For Our Lady of Guadalupe and http://www.polishshrine.com/ For Our Lady of Czestochowa Hasta luego! (I need a keyboard with Spanish characters - ay carumba!)
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He is Risen! jw, There was a huge discussion about the date of the Annunciation this year at http://YourCatholic.com , what was discovered was that the Latin Rite in America is celebrating the Annunciation on April 8th this year. It got "in the way" of Holy Week they say. Go figure. Yes, we Byzantines got the date right! God Bless!
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Originally posted by Nik: He is Risen!
jw,
There was a huge discussion about the date of the Annunciation this year at http://YourCatholic.com , what was discovered was that the Latin Rite in America is celebrating the Annunciation on April 8th this year. It got "in the way" of Holy Week they say. Go figure. Yes, we Byzantines got the date right! God Bless!It's not just the States who are celebrating this very important [ for me anyway  ] Feast late this year ! We also celebrate it after the East. When , oh when will we sort out the Calendar problems ? Angela  again
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