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This link was on the ByzantineCatholicsSpeak list
http://www.westernorthodox.com/rosary Though the term 'Western Orthodoxy' escapes me, it is still seems to be a good article.

The Rosary and Orthodoxy

From The Walsingham Way (Vol. II, No. I, Fall 1999), a newsletter of Western Orthodox spirituality published by the Orthodox Christian Society of Our Lady of Walsingham.

Some people have asked why the Orthodox don�t pray the Rosary as Roman Catholics and some other non-Orthodox do. Others object to Orthodox praying the Rosary since, in their view, this is not an Orthodox devotion, but peculiar to Roman Catholicism.

In hope of shedding some light on the subject, we publish the following letter of Father Alexander Gumanovsky, a spiritual son of Father Zosima, who was himself a spiritual son of St. Seraphim of Sarov. Fr. Alexander begins his letter with a quote from Fr. Zosima:

�I forgot to give you a piece of advice vital for salvation. Say the 0 Hail, Mother of God and Virgin one hundred and fifty times, and this prayer will lead you on the way to salvation. This rule was given by the Mother of God herself in about the eighth century, and at one time all Christians fulfilled it. We Orthodox have forgotten about it, and St. Seraphim has reminded me of this Rule. In my hands I have a hand-written book from the cell of St. Seraphim, containing a description of the many miracles which took place through praying to the Mother of God and especially through saying one hundred and fifty times the O Hail, Mother of God and Virgin. If, being unaccustomed to it, it is difficult to master one hundred and fifty repetitions daily, say it fifty times at first. After every ten repetitions say the Our Father once and Open unto us the doors of thy loving-kindness1. Whomever he spoke to about this miracle-working Rule remained grateful to him�

The elder Zosima greatly valued and loved Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsky and always spoke of him as that saintly Bishop. Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsky performed the Rule of the Mother of God every day, and; when he performed it he prayed for the whole world, embracing in is this Rule whole life of the Queen of Heaven.

He gave one of his spiritual children the task of copying a plan which he included his prayer to the Ever Virgin Mary. Here it is:

First decade: Let us remember the birth of the Mother of God. Let us pray for mothers, fathers, and children.

Second decade: Let us the feast of the Presentation of the Blessed Virgin and Mother of God. Let us pray for those who have lost their way and fallen away from the church.

Third decade: Let us remember the Annunciation of the Blessed Mother of God�let us pray for the soothing of sorrows and the consolation of those who grieve.

Fourth decade: Let us remember the meeting of the Blessed Virgin with the righteous Elizabeth. Let us pray for the reunion of the separated, for those whose dear ones or children are living away from them or missing.

Fifth decade: Let us remember the Birth of Christ. Let us pray for the rebirth of souls, for new life in Christ.

Sixth decade: Let us remember the Feast of the Purification of the Lord, and the words uttered by St. Simeon: Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also (Luke 2:35). Let us pray that the Mother of God will meet our souls at the hour of our death, and will contrive that we receive the Holy Sacrament with our last breath, and will lead our souls through the terrible torments.

Seventh decade: Let us remember the flight of the Mother of God with the God-Child into Egypt. Let us pray that the Mother of God will help us avoid temptation in this life and deliver us from misfortunes.

Eighth decade: Let us remember the disappearance of the twelve-year old boy Jesus in Jerusalem and the sorrow of the Mother of God on this account. Let us pray, begging the Mother of God for the constant repetition of the Jesus Prayer.

Ninth decade: Let us remember-the miracle performed in Cana of Galilee, when the Lord turned water into wine at the words of the Mother of God: They have no wine (John 2:3). Let us ask the Mother of God for help in our affairs and deliverance from need.

Tenth decade: Let us remember the Mother of God standing at the Cross of the Lord, when grief pierced through her heart like a sword. Let us pray to the Mother of God for the strengthening of our Souls and the banishment of despondency.

Eleventh decade: Let us remember the Resurrection of Christ and ask the Mother of God in prayer to resurrect our souls and give us a new courage for spiritual feats.

Twelfth decade: Let us remember the Ascension of Christ, at which the Mother of God was present. Let us pray and ask the Queen of Heaven to raise up our souls from earthly and worldly amusements and direct them to striving for higher things.

Thirteenth decade: Let us remember the Upper Room and the descent of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles and the Mother of God. Let us pray: Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me (Psalm 51).

Fourteenth decade: Let us remember the Assumption of the Blessed Mother of God, and ask for a peaceful and serene end.

Fifteenth decade: Let us remember the glory of the Mother of God, with which the Lord crowned her after her removal from earth to heaven. Let us pray to the Queen of Heaven not to abandon the faithful who are on earth but to defend them from every evil, covering them with her honoring and protecting veil.

After every decade Bishop Seraphim prayed his own prayers, which he revealed to no one, so that only the Lord and the Queen of Heaven knew these prayers.

Thus, we can see that the Rosary is a completely Orthodox form of devotion to our Lady.

Those who follow the Western tradition should follow one of the standard forms, i.e. the opening consisting of the Sign of the Cross followed by the Lord�s Prayer; or O Lord, open Thou my lips, and my mouth shall show forth Thy praise and the Glory be� followed by the Lord�s Prayer and the Angelic Salutation (three times). After this, either five or fifteen decades (each preceded by the appropriate mystery) are recited; and after the decades, the conclusion consisting of the Regina Coeli and the appropriate collect.

Those who follow the Eastern tradition could very easily follow the form cited above, ending with the hymn, It is truly meet to call thee blessed.

What is essential is to daily seek the intercessions of the Mother of God, so that in drawing closer to her, we may be drawn closer to her Son, our Savior, Jesus, with whom she now reigns eternally in Heaven.

1. The Full text of the prayer is: Open unto us the door of thy loving-kindness, O blessed Mother of God, in that we set our hope on thee, may we not go astray; but through thee may we be delivered from all adversities, fix thou art the salvation of all Christian people.

Pani,

This is marvellous. I was trying to figure out the prayer to which they were referring:

Is it this one?

Blessings,

Gordo

Gordo

This brings back some memories for me.

Some time back my younger daughter suffered what could have been a devastating injury having been bitten by a prisoner in her care.

I was distraught ,as you can well imagine and Alex suggested to me at that time that I should pray what he called the Rule of the Mother of God , given to the nuns at Divayeevo [ sp ?? } under his care by St Seraphim of Sarov. This , as described to me by Alex ,was the 'Hail Mary ' but the Byzantine version of it [ I was 'RC' at that time ] said 150 times and the same number of 'Our Fathers".

He warned me that this would not be easy - and he was right - but it did bring peace and the realisation that my daughter was under the care of the Theotokos and all I had to do was trust.

I understood from Alex - that this Rule was one that was easily followed by the nuns - many of whom were possibly illiterate. He said that this Rule was prayed by the nuns as they walked round the edge of their Monastery - and so a ditch there actually evolved - where they walked.

I have to admit that since then I have held St Seraphim in high esteem - and this was possibly some 3 or 4 years before I realised that I was headed for the East

Anhelyna

Gordo,

The Byzantine Hail Mary also called the Angelic Salutation:

Hail, Mother of God, Virgin Mary full of grace!
The Lord is with you! Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb, for you have borne Christ, the Savior and Deliverer of our souls.

Fr. Deacon Lance

It is not my place to tell anyone what devotions they should use and pray. I think the Rosary is a beautiful devotion, though I also think the modern form of the Rosary has aspects to it that are, to say the least, in tension with classical ascetic spirituality. That being said, I find the notion that it is somehow essential to pray the Rosary, or that it trumps other prayer disturbing. It seems that the point of the article is to say something like that, that the Orthodox have forgotten some essential "vital" prayer for salvation. Peace in Christ,

Joe

The only prayer that is an absolute necessity in our prayer life is praying the prayer that Jesus taught us...

Our Father, Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen....

Everything else is for our edification and drawing us closer to God!

What I want to know most is why the West does not say the "Jesus Prayer".

The Rosary is a vital prayer. Not everyone has to pray it no, I dont think its the end of the world not to. But I see no reason why it should fall out of common practice. Perhaps it's why the Theotokos hasnt appeared in the East since the year 1000? Or am i wrong? I hope I am wrong (no Holy Fire in Rome Either, just Jerusalem)


I havent talked to enough Byzantine type Orthodox or even Eastern Catholics about their use of it very much. But in the way that it is vital, I dont know if it means in its form today. Because the hail mary was shorter in the 8th century I read it was only "Holy Mary Mother of God (Theotokos?) Pray for Us Sinners now at the hour of our death, Amen" not the "Hail Mary" part at the beginning which was added around 14th-16th century i think.

At St. Thomas Syriac Orthodox Church, (Malankara Diocese, Kerala) in Uniontown, MD, the closest Orthodox Church to my home many Orthodox love to pray the rosary and also have devotion to Mother (St.) Elizabeth Ann Seton of Emmitsburg, MD (where I live).

So I see nothing wrong with Orthodox using it the way I do.

But I have to mention I've never in my life probably prayed the so-called correct form or common way where a person meditates on the different mysteries (except in public)..I just pray mostly the hail mary and our father and glory be.

I dont know why meditating on mysteries part is important. Its too much work for me.. I dont know what anyone thinks of that. I welcome suggestions. But I do know that prayer is what we make it ourselves as well. The rules are really informal and God is not a perfectionist in terms of our individual private methods.

Glory To Jesus Christ!

Just a little note - my husband, who is RC, and many RC's I know, have prayed the
Jesus Prayer for many years, (it is in the RC Book of Indulgences, just as a side bar), AND the Rosary of The Blessed Virgin Mother. Despite controvery over the origins of The Rosary, Our Lady of Fatima specifically asked all to pray it everyday. She did not just appear for RC's, just as Jesus did not appear only for The Jews - these are beautiful and holy devotions, as many other written prayers can also bring us closer to Christ and His Blessed Virgin Mother. I say, "why not!" - God Love you all ! - Gv.

Thanks, Father Deacon Lance! I wondered why that prayer was not part of the document posted by Pani Rose...do you think they might be referring to a different prayer?

Also I have seen it begin with "Rejoice..."

God bless,

Gordo

Joe,

Is the tension to which you refer the idea of "discursive meditation"?

I have picked up the Rosary again recently (in its Byzantine form, which was why Pani Rose's posting was very timely for me. I still continue to use the Jesus Prayer.) I tend to use icons for my meditation as I pray the decades, since it keeps me focused on the mysteries as conveyed through a canonical form and not my own fertile imagination.

The icons I use are from the "Life of Jesus" packet through the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese. On the back of each icon they have a wonderful meditation that really helps you in your prayer. There are 20 icons in the packet, and these are the mysteries I use, instead of the traditional Latin Rosary ones.

I see it as an opportunity to look on the life of Jesus through the spiritual eyes of His Holy Mother, contemplating these savings mysteries in my own heart.

Here is the link to the website:

http://www.goarch.org/en/archdiocese/departments/religioused/downloads/dre-catalog-2006.pdf

Go to page 13 for the Life of Jesus Icon Packet.

God bless!

Gordon

The use of the Jesus Prayer seems to ebb and flow in the West.

One other point - there are accounts of appartions of the Theotokos in the East in recent times. Here is on in Egypt:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitoun

I have also heard of one in Ukraine, but cannot locate anything on it.

My sense is that these appartions, if authentic, are prophetic calls to live according to the apostolic faith...private revelation should support and lead us to a more faithful realization of public revelation in our own lives. But they are not "necessary" for salvation...any more than the Holy Fire.

Gordo

Gordon, that is what I was thinking of. It seems to me that the practice of discursive meditation is precisely against that which the ascetical fathers taught. We strive to empty our minds of all that is in our imagination.

I am not opposed to the Rosary at all. I used to pray the Rosary and I found the prayers beautiful and the practice helpful, though I found the discursive meditation on the mysteries more of a distraction than a help.

I only get concerned when someone claims that, on the basis of an alleged private revelation, all Christians must pray one thing or another. I wasn't intending to say anything negative toward the Rosary at all. Peace in Christ,

Joe

Joe,

I did not think you were being negative about the Rosary at all. The topic of discursive meditation is an interesting one.

I will only point out that I use icons just for that reason.

BUT...I think the idea of "imageless prayer" can create problems, especially for those of us who are beginners in prayer. To my mind, this represents an advanced level of prayer/contemplation that few attain, but to which we are all called. With that said, to presume that we can enter the state of "imageless" prayer directly without starting at lower stages may open us to all sorts of issues with spiritual pride and prelest.

Plus, the imagination is a God-given faculty of our soul that needs to be sanctified as well. I know a holy Orthodox monk who runs an Orthodox school which refuses to teach fiction to children on the (false) premise that the idea of encouraging imagination through stories malforms a child spiritually. To my mind it is the unbridled imagination which is the problem, not the use of the faculty itself. The imagination can give glory to God and does, for instance, when we read passages of the Gospel and envision the story unfolding before us. It becomes problematic when we start to either embellish too much or confuse the image with the reality. Fiction can also be a very spirtually healthy thing, as demonstrated by Christian and pagan cultures for ages, but that is another discussion.

Bottom line? I certainly have little issue with discursive meditation, so long as one is immersed in the Gospel accounts, the teachings of Holy Tradition and canonical iconography. These parameters act as a corrective to any temptations to "create" or "embellish" the mysteries.

God bless,

Gordo

The history and development of the "Ave Maria" is the other way around.

The first part (salutation/thanksgiving) was common among the early Christians, in various forms in Greek and Latin. The Latin form "Ave Maria, gratia plena . . . " persisted to this day.

The second part (petition) was added, in its present form, by the Catechism of the Council of Trent.

Amado

Amado,

I believe that the original form did not include the Names of Jesus and Mary...which bolsters the opinion that "full of grace" is the name given by God to Mary. I actually prefer to say the prayer that way...

Gordo