www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West New Member Questions

As a new member to both the forum and the Church, I have some questions:

1. I am a baptized Roman Catholic and it appears to me the that Roman Catholic Church has made it "easier" to be a good Catholic. For example, if it is "inconvenient" to attend Mass on Sunday, that's no problem, because there are Masses on Saturday evenings. It used to be required to abstain from meat on each Friday of the year, but that's too much of a sacrifice, so now it is only required on the Fridays during Lent. Fasting before receiving Holy Communion used to be 3 hours, but now only 1 hour is required. My question is, has the Byzantine Church "relaxed" any of it's requirements over the years? My guess is not, but I do not know.

2. Who appoints the bishops and archbishops in the Byzantine Church? Is it the Pope? Do the bishops and archbishops report "up the chain" to the Pope as in the Roman Catholic Church?

Thnaks for reading and replying.

Dear Michael,

The respective Primates/Patriarchs of the Eastern Catholic Churches issue the fasting rules, but it is often the case that individual parishes will, if they are "Eastern" in orientation, affirm the full Orthodox fasting discipline.

As my parish certainly does . . .

In the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church, we are to fast on all Fridays of the year. Wednesday fasting is recommended. In my parish, it is assumed that we would fast on Wednesdays.

Without making of it "mortal sin" not to, we are encouraged to fast throughout the Great Fast/Lent, as much as we can, following the Orthodox model. We are to fast more fully during Holy Week.

Many EC's I know do follow this fast as well.

There are "Latinist" parishes that basically state that whatever is legal for the RC's is what we are to follow as well.

The fasting includes the three hour fast prior to receiving Holy Communion - usually fasting from midnight before. I certainly can't imagine going to Communion without following this fast.

As for bishops, our Patriarch/Major Archbishop appoints them for the canonical territory of Ukraine.

Rome appoints our bishops outside of Ukraine - after three candidates' names are offered by our Synod.

Or so I'm told . . .

Basically, Rome doesn't like to give up control - no one really does.

So if our candidates got their act together, they could be appointed by our Synod, consecrated and then let Rome know "post factum" what has transpired.

We do that in Ukraine now - Rome simply says it has given its permission and blessing!

And if you believe that . . .

Alex

I am a new member of the Forum also and I am learning so much about Byzantium--I love it. Though I am RC I find so much to love about Byzantine Catholicism the more I learn about it. When I was in college many years ago, studying Russian and Polish languages and literature, I also was able to attend numerous Russian Orthodox Liturgies, and found them exquisite as well. We have such rich traditions! Many blessings to you all!

Please don't shoot the messenger
But there exist Byzantine Catholic parishes (in my experience, Ukrainian and Ruthenian) that have Sat. night Liturgy that counts as Sunday. There are parishes however that have adopted Vespers Sat. night and hours Sunday morning followed by Liturgy.
Note not all parishes on either side (Orthodox or Byzantine Catholic) can follow that schedule. The priest may have two parishes, the choir/cantor may not be available on Sat. evenings, et al.
Of course you can alway fast from midnight or follow the no meat on fridays rule throughout the year. You obviously are not supposed to break the guidelines but there isn't any rule that says you can't follow more the more astute schedule.
In the States the communion fast has been 1 hour as long as I can remember (I'm one of the under-30 brethren) for the Roman Catholic Church.

Michael,
I think you may have missed the point.
While it is true that the rules are relaxed, You are encouraged as a part of your own discipline to be a strenous as you would like.
If you want to follow the old rule of fasting that being nothing up to 12 hours before communion, you are free to impose that upon yourself as a personal discipline. The Church has set a bare minimum that must be observed.
Stephanos I

PS It is still recommended that all fridays of the year are penitential days.

I do realize that we as Catholics can always do more than the minimum required. I was just commenting on how the RCC has relaxed those minumums over the years.

The Pyrohy who is attempting to be good. Look, I am going to welcome you to the forum on my behalf. Bienvenue. But we're not a latin discussion forum here, we're an Eastern forum, specifically Byzantine Catholics. Obviously we have a great number of Orthodox posters (and moderators/administrators) of the Oriental and Eastern varieties and various Catholics such as Maronites and the Syrian Malankar church and curious Romans (who want to learn more or are considering jumping into the Eastern end of the pool).
I appreciate your observation on the fasting rules of the Roman Catholic Church. There are plenty of forums out there where you can get all the appropiate responses you are looking for, so why start the angst here?
We've sat through enough as of lately, please don't restart the fire.
Welcome to the forum, hope you don't find me cheeky, but I'm just helping you find our bearings.

Dear Michael L,
My post is in response to your first question to clarify why I find it prefereable to attend the Latin Rite Saturday-evening Vigil Mass. The Church has some VERY deep Old Testament roots that reflect the beginning of the day starting at sundown- this hasn't changed for us. So in those terms the Saturday evening Mass is really considered the first Mass of the sabbath. Plus, it helps my Saturday evening be more contemplative after having gone to reconciliation that afternoon, before Mass. Just protecting my peacefullness into Sunday- CatherineC

Dear Catherine,
Thank you for your perspective. I fully agree with your position especially if it makes you feel very fulfulled and more connected. I must admit that I have attended Mass on Saturday evenings, but as rule, I attend Mass on Sundays. My only point was that I beleive the RCC was realizing diminished attendance at Mass on Sundays since the early 60's and I still believe that this change was made to make it easier for Catholics to meet their obligation. I am old enough to remember the pre-Vatican II Church, and believe me, it was stricter then than it is now. That is the only point I was trying to make.

Actually that is not how the allowance for Saturday Evening came into being.
It was merely for those thousands of people who due to what ever reason had to work on Sundays.
The norm was still meant to be Sunday Worship.
Stephanos I

Yes, I agree that was one of the reasons. But we muat also realize how much more busy people became on Sundays starting the early 60's. Shopping malls opening up all over the country, businesses and other activities having open hours and events on Sundays, not only for workers, but for the general population as well. Life just got more complicated and more busy and Mass attendance suffered. I still maintain there was a decline in Sunday Mass attendance, albeit, for a variety of reasons.

Dear Friends,

We have Saturday evening Vespers as a preparation for the Sunday Divine Liturgy.

One reason why morning Divine Liturgy is preferred is that the Descent of the Holy Spirit occurred at around 9:00 am in the morning and this is likened to the Descent of the Holy Spirit on the consecrated Bread and Wine in the Divine Liturgy's Epiclesis to make them the Body and Blood of OLGS Jesus Christ.

Going to Vespers and Matins is also the East's way of preparing us for the great experience of the celebration of the Life, Death, Resurrection, Ascension of and Sending of the Holy Spirit by OLGS Jesus Christ.

Alex

Wonderful responses appreciated from everyone that I honor, especially about the Descent of the Holy Spirit in the morning- which makes great sense, but having not been there myself, I can certainly defer to my betters.
As a "Latinist" I am obviously still searching from a POV of my own parish's choices to "dumb-down" a once-rich liturgy in the US. Peace+
CatherineC