www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Cardinal Roger in Ukraine

Dear OrthodoxEast,

Well, you are right - the title means little in terms of actual jurisdictional powers, under Rome.

But it is a great educational tool for our Latinized set.

And if people THINK they have power, they will support the Patriarch when he flexes some muscle, even if Rome doesn't like it.

But in Kyiv's case, the Metropolitan there always had many patriarchal powers and privileges, but Constantinople held him on a short leash for as long as it could . . .

An OCA priest once told me that the UGCC must fight back at Rome and establish itself in accordance with the spirit of the Union of Brest.

When I told him then that I didn't like the whole Union thingy, he actually scolded me and said not to be hard on my own Church - God allowed the Union and will draw good from it.

Alex

Dear All:

Rome will only have talks with the MP church?

How quickly one forgets. When the Pope went to Ukraine two years ago, the ONLY Orthodox prelates who were willing to meet with him were those of these "uncannonical churches."

Way to go Rome! Show us your real colors.

I agree with what's been said above. We need to take a VERY hard look at the issue of whether communion with Rome is the way for us Ukies to achieve our own unified Church.

Just like the church Rome is the continuation of the Roman imperialism of ancient times, the church of Moscow continues to embody the imperialism the Muscotive czars and ths USSR. If these two get together one certain issues, it will no doubt be bad for our Ukrainian Church.

End of rant.

Yours,

kl

Dear KL,

What was it that Shakespeare said?

"Rome and roome enough."

But not when it comes to our Church, it would seem.

Alex

Dear OrthodoxEast,
A Patriarchate is not simply a title. It is recognition of a spiritual head and father of a nation and a people. Recognizing a Ukrainian Patriarchate is telling the world that Moscow is no longer playing ball in Ukraine, that Ukrainians and Russians are different people with different history and culture.We would like to worship God in our own language and tradition. I'm not blaming you for not understanding this, but I think understanding our history and culture helps a lot.This is one issue that the Ukrainians have been fighting for for a long time.
Lauro

Dear Lauro,

You go, Ukie-Meister! You go!!

(Who do you think won in my discussion with the Administrator? )

Alex

Lauro, well said. We really do have to look after our own ecclesiastical household. Since Cardinal Etchegaray did not consult with Patriarch Lubomyr before this consultation, these comments certainly only apply to the RC's. And I know of no official sanction or warning from Rome after Patriarch Lubomyr and Patriarch Filaret's joint Moleben with the copy of the Shroud of Turin in Kyiv.

If the RC's want to limit their ecumenical contact to the MP, that is their choice. We need to follow what's best for the UGCC, and that obviously is open contact with other sister Ukrainian Orthodox churches, regardless of what the rest of the world thinks about their "canonicity". More power to Patriarch Lubomyr for his outreach to the KP and UAOC.

Dear Diak,

I think we can safely assume Rome would not approve of Husar's dealings with those uncanonical schismatics .

What Rome doesn't seem to realize is that it offends the sensibilities of all Ukies by statements like this one.

But this is the silver lining in the cloud.

Ukies don't care what Rome thinks here.

And I gather Rome has given up trying to tell Ukies what to do as well.

So we're even . . . as long as we stay out of each other's way!

Alex

Dear Orthodox-East:

Rome knows exactly what the definition of the title Patriarch means.

It means that it has no formal preliminary veto in the election of the leader of the sui-juris church.

With a Patriarchate, all Rome does is extend communion with the new leader after his election.

With a Major-Archbishop or such, it has at least an informal veto on electors.


As to Cardinal Roger he is just another outsider with a big mouth trying to suck-up to the Russians.

This reminds me of something in a similar vein.

I recently heard that Cardinal Colasuono died.

He was a seasoned Vatican diplomat and an expert on Eastern Europe.

He was also the first Vatican representative to Russia at the time of Perestroika.

If I remember correctly he once told Metropolitan Vladimir Sterniuk to shut up.

The Metropolitan (memory eternal) had tried to answer the Orthodox Bishops after they complained that parishioners were seizing former Ukrainian-Catholic churches.

Just wait, given the chance Roger could do the same.

defreitas

Dear Jose,

Bravo, Sir, Bravo!

Remember that ill-advised stuff I was saying about you not knowing Ukies because you aren't one of us?

I was wrong, very wrong!

It takes a big-hearted, wonderful person to admit he's wrong.

I hope you'll take that under advisement!

Alex

Does this mean we can stop listening?

Or does it mean Rome has realized that we, increasingly, aren't listening?

Or is this just an episode of "Cardinal Roger's Neighborhood"?

Dear John,

I think it means Rome doesn't care what we do with our ears.

Or else, read another way, Rome recognizes only Moscow as the representative of canonical Orthodoxy in Ukraine.

That really does sound bad . . .

Alex

Dear Alex,

As usual, I think you have some insight here.

Dear Alex:

Thanks for your kind words, I really appreciate the gesture.

I hope you got to read my post on our Chicago trip, it's quite enlightening.

By the way, my Brother-in-law Ihor Petryk is being ordained to the Priesthood on Sunday September the 28th, at 3:00 PM. at SS. Peter and Paul Ukrainian Catholic Church in Scarbourgh.

I will also be at the new Bishop's consecration on the 27th of July with the krylos singers.

See you there.

JL.

Dear Jose,

I wasn't planning on going on July 27th, but if you and the Krylos Singers will be there, I know where I can get a ticket!

See you there!

Alex

Jose, can we get tickets through "Ticketmaster" Just kidding. I might be coming up for that as well with a priest of the Eparchy of Toronto who is on loan down this way.