www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Romania Churches to Lure Tourists

I recently ran accross this article,
Romania Primps Up Faraway Churches to Lure Tourists [story.news.yahoo.com]

Very good read however parts really disturb me. For example,

Excuse Me! They are houses of God!

What are your thoughts?

Catholic Man:

First, consider the source. Don't expect Reuters to report from a spiritual perspective. Second, the quote above, IMHO, has more to do with good taste than cultural expression... Plastic flowers on the altar? I'd rather not see any if plastic was the only alternative.

CM,

I tend to agree with Deacon John (especially on the plastic flowers . If the tourism contibutes to the preservation and continuation of the religious heritage of the Romanian people (and perhaps introduces a few more folks to our Eastern religious heritage), I say more power to it.

Many years,

Neil

This was also similar to the way that Florensky tried to preserve many monasteries and churches in Russia (and I think his ideas, ultimately, worked, even if not as well as he would have wished).

He told the communists who were interested in art, and collecting icons for museums, that the best way to look at a work is within the context it was meant to be used. Icons are to be seen, viewed, in churches, with incense and candles flickering, and the images can only be appreciated in this context. End result: keep monasteries open as museums, with a full monastic community, to be seen as a part of the art...

The wooden Christian churches of the Carpathian mountains (including the above mentioned in Romania) are indeed unique and worthy of seeing by tourists. Many of these areas are very poor, but rich in spirituality, culture, unique architecture, and physical beauty.

Not only do sacred churches help foreigners understand how people worship, but they also show unique examples of how Christian 'Byzantium' and 'Roman Latin' architechture could be adapted to an area where wood was THE main if not only building material for most peoples.

Many of these country / rural churches have come out of a few generations of communist rule which did not permit them to make any improvements of any kind to their temples unless party officials were paid off first .

Today, out of pure love for their faith, many of the parishes are attempting to complete what they see as generations of long overdue 'renovations' (both inside and out) and 'improvements' to their churches.

For example, some renovations may include; aluminum siding, plastic flowers, 'smoothing and/or repainting walls (often covering centuries old icons), bleaching old wood to make it look new, remounting adjacent cemetery tombstones (usually not in their original spots), putting up community billboards on church walls,(etc...).

These church building are often hundreds of years old and need carefull renovations or improvements in keeping with the original design, period, and Christian rite.

Could you imagine walking into a New York antique shop and the owner was 'tacking' plastic flowers to a centuries old icon because he thought it would look nicer . Then he showed you it's 300 year old woodcarved frame "which now looks like new" because he bleached it. Oh yeah, then he pasted a title for the icon at the bottom so you would know what it represents. He then made some other "improvements" to make it look better. :rolleyes:

The Carpathian wooden churches are antiques (much like chairs, pictures, etc...) and must be treated with extreme care for future generations to appreciate.

Both the church hierarchs and the governments today see themselves as the caretakers of these unique and historic buildings, and as such they have set forth guidelines and rules for their preservation and upkeep. The good news is, that the governments will often fund the expensive renovations.

Hritzko

The Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church's Mukachevo Eparchy borders on Romania. There once was a 'Maramaros Eparchy' for the Ukrainians (Carpatho-Rus) in what is now Northern Romania and where these tours will be taking place. For more information, see the following link:

History of the Maramaros Greek Catholic Eparchy (now Northern Romania) [uaoc.org]

Hritzko

Greg,

Great article. Thanks.

Many years,

Neil

The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Eparchy of Mukachevo?
When did they canonically change the name of the Byzantine-Ruthenian Sui Juris Greek Catholic Eparchy of Mukachevo and when did it "merge" with the Archeparchial-Metropolitan Ukrainian Greco Catholic Church????

U-C

According to the official Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church web site, the Subcarpathian church is either:

(1) The Greek Catholic Eparchy of Mukachiv (Ukraine)

OR

(2) The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Eparchy of Mukachiv

Contrary to what many members of the American Byzantine Catholic Church think, the Ukrainians have never surrendered the term 'Ruthenian' and have only opted to use Ukrainian in it's place. For example, the the UGCC is the heir to the 'Ruthenian Union of Brest' (1596) and is so aknowledged by Rome.

Here is where I got the nomenclature from. I have not seen anything different for this eparchy. If you feel it should be corrected, you should contact Lviv as soon as possible to have them make the appropriate changes. Certainly if you have seen a separate web site please provide us with the link .

Greek Catholicism in Ukraine [ugcc.org.ua]

I hope this helps.

Hritzko

So your're saying the Ruthenian Eparchy of Munkach/Mukachevo is now under the Metropoliatian Archeparchy of L'vov? I guess Rome must of made that canonical change official, just as it approved the Ukrainian Greco-Catholic Patriarchate? I must of missed that news headline . No wonder why 75% of the churches in Transcarpathia remain part of the Russian Orthodox Church-Moscow Patriarchate.

Ung-Certez

There are several reasons why a large percentage of churches in Transcarpathia are still in the Moscow Patriarchate. One is, quite simply, that the "former" communists continue to hold a great deal of power in Transcarpathia (the same is true in Romania, with the same result for the churches). A second reason is that amongst the Greek-Catholic clergy one can still find, sadly enough, a significant tendency that seeks to assimilate Transcarpathia to Hungary. This problem has been causing trouble for well over a century; when clergy make it clear that they are supporting such an aspiration without the support of their faithful, trouble is a likely result. Yet a third reason is that the faithful, who are not fools, realize that this "independent sui iuris church" is a means of subjecting the Eparchy of Mukachiv directly to the tender mercies of the Roman Curia - which may explain why it now has a Latin bishop.
Anyone who suspects that I'm talking through my paper bag might try doing an honest survey of what becomes (ecclesiastically speaking) of people from Transcarpathia who succeed in emigrating to the USA.
Incognitus

Transcarpathia, with it's capital city located in Uzhorod, is still very multi-ethnic. There are many ethnic minorities with the Carpatho-Rusyns
(which the Ukrainian government refuses to recognize as a minority)being the largest minority. If one were to walk the streets of Uzhorod, you can still hear many people speaking Hungarian, Slovak, Rusyn dialect and a very Russianized Ukrainian. Transcarpathia has always been a border land where many ethnic groups have lived side-by-side for hundreds of years. The Transcarpathian region is one oblast of the Ukrainian Republic that would be better off if it had more regional governmental autonomy and less bureaucracy from Kiev. The local economy is terrible because there really isn't any free trading between Transcarpathia and the surrounding countries (Slovakia, Hungary, Romania). The Greek Catholic Church situation is in the same boat as the local government. It has always been a sui juris eparchial administration and to change that independent status and place her under the Metropolitan Archeparchial (Major Archbishopric?) of L'vov-Volyn-Kiev would be a mistake. The local poplace have been dictated to for centuries and do not always trust "outsiders".
It is a complicated political and religious environment in need of prudent leadership. Until such governing is achieved, the people will always
be seperatists and divided.

Ung-Certez

The following is from the UGCC website:

Quote

THE MAJOR ARCHBISHOPIC IN UKRAINE IS DIVIDED INTO THESE TERRITORIES:
1. The archeparchy of Lviv, headed by Major Archbishop Lubomyr;
2. The eparchy of Ivano-Frankivsk, headed by Bishop Sophron Mudry;
3. The eparchy of Kolomiya-Chernivtsi, headed by Bishop Pavlo Vasylyk;
4. The eparchy of Sambir-Drohobych, headed by Bishop Yulian Voronovsky;
5. The eparchy of Ternopil-Zboriv, headed by Bishop Mykhailo Sabrych;
6. The eparchy of Buchach-Chortkiv, headed by Bishop Irenae Biluk;
7. The eparchy of Stryi, headed by Bishop Yulian Gbor;
8. The eparchy of Sokal, headed by Bishop Mykhailo Koltun;
9. The exarchate of Kyiv-Vyshorod, headed by Bishop Vasyl Medvit, to which the Greek Catholics of central and eastern Ukraine belong. Bishop Medvit is at the same time the Apostolic Visitator for Ukrainian Greek Catholics in Kazakstan and Central Asia.

The autonomous status of the Greek Catholic Church's Mukachiv Eparchy has been preserved. It is formally a sui juris church not subordinated to the Head of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. The Mukachiv eparchy, with its center in Uzhorod, is lead by Bishop Ivan Semedy and his auxiliary Bishop Ivan Margitych.

U-C and Two Lungs,

Save your energy. "The truth is out there" - obviously, it's on the "real" UGCC website (to which only Hritzko has access :rolleyes: ).

Many years,

Neil

Read my post carefully and you will notice that I never stated that the Mukachevo Eparchy is now under the Archeparchy of Lviv. It would seem that Ung-Certez made this comment, not me. Two-lungs and Neil seemed to take off from there.

I do stand by my comment that church is refered to as: the 'Greek-Catholic Eparchy of Mukachiv, Ukraine', or can be rephrased as; 'the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Eparchy of Mukachiv'.

Your comments about 75% of the Carpatho-Ukrainians fearing the UGCC's Lviv Archeparchy are way off. Since you do not speak Ukrainian (Rusyn) you can't phone any of the parishes there to find out how the people think. I can, and have spoken to several.

In fact, they feer the Latinizing, Slovakizing, and Magyarizing of their church which seem to go unoticed by many who identify themselves as Carpatho-Rusyns here in the USA.

The number one reason why 75% of the Transcarpathian churches remain in the hands of the Moscow Patriarch is that Ukrainians who live there do not trust Rome with matters relating to the preservation of their Byzantine Christian rite. The communists, allies of the Moscow Patriarch use this fact to keep power. Here is the negative supporting evidence of Latinization they are faced with:

(1) 'Next door' Slovakia which had 400,000 Greek Catholics (mostly Ruthenian-Ukrainians) just after WW2 now has less than 40,000 (highly assimmilate and a overestimation) thanks to the usurpation of episcopal power by the Latin rite bishops from the Byzantines over the past few decades.

(2) The near complete assimmilation of the Carpatho-Ruthenian Greek Catholics in the USA into the Latin rite church. They just seem to have accepted the Slovakization-Magyarization Latinization. It once was a Metropolia for Ruthenians yet today, the new immigrant Ruthenian-Ukrainians from the Mukachevo Eparchy attend UGCC churches because they offer services in Ukrainian.

(3) Centuries old Magyarization (Hungarization) / Latinization of the Eastern rite Christians does not help assure the Orthodox Ukrainian Carpathian Christians that they will remain as such. The Galicians had the same problem with Poles but were able to better withstand it and preserve their Ruthenian-Ukrainian heritage.

Dr Orest Subtelny mentions in his book 'History of Ukrainians' that the Magyars cultivated the Uhro-Rusyn (Hungarian-Rusyn) identity to assimmilate them into the Hungarian Latin Church. In the USA in the old days it was Hungarian Latin rite clergy who claimed to have the best interests of the Rusyns at heart, yet they systematicaly Latinized them to almost extinction. Yet today it is a Hungarian professor who claims to have their best interests at heart and they buy it hook, line, and sinker...

That 75% of the Carpatho-Ukrainians who remain loyal to the Moscow Patriarch do so because of the above, not because of the UGCC Lviv archeparchy. Lviv must prove it will not Latinize, Magyarize, or Slovakize their millennium old byzantine rite. This has become a near impossible task since Rome installed a Latin Rite bishop for the Eparchy, another neat trick for further efforts to completely assimmilate the Carpatho-Ukrainians.

Stick to the facts U-C. If you like we can call a couple of parishes in the Carpathians to discuss matters.

Hritzko