www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Orthodox vs. Catholic - differences

Dear Ned,

I think you've hit on something quite significant here.

I've always been impressed with Asian Buddhism for the way in which they train their laity.

In some countries, Buddhist youth are expected, when they reach the age of 18, to spend a year in a Buddhist monastery.

Some of them will stay afterwards as monks. But most won't. However, the way of life they learn in the monastic setting will stay with most for the rest of their lives.

How do Christians train for a committed Christian life?

Usually, it is the luck of the draw, having a pious family, the influence of a pious pastor.

Too much, however, is left to chance and 'inspiration' that may or may not come.

If we had some sort of "spiritual boot camp" patterned on the monastic model or another one where Christians, at an early age, can learn the practice of prayer, meditation, spiritual reading etc. I think this would go a long way.

I know that my in-laws attend church every Sunday. But they don't pray and, like others sharing their background, don't see why they should outside of the Divine Liturgy and the odd prayer morning, night and before meals.

There are many who don't pray because they don't know how and when they go through the motions of prayer, reading from a prayer-book, for example, it leaves them cold.

One priest on EWTN giving a retreat said that the real tragedy of North American Christians is that they spend from 4-6 hours watching television but are then too tired to spend even 15 minutes in prayer or spiritual reading.

I would suggest that this tragedy also has to do with a problem in teaching them to pray properly so that it is second nature. Monastics and clergy are trained in prayer and spiritual exercises - why aren't laity?

Alex

Some excellent points upon which I whole heartedly agree...especially if the "spiritual boot camp" is extended to adults who are in need of this as well.

The problem does go back basically to the family. If such training, practicing prayer, etc. as you mention above is promoted and encouraged for the children...in the families..by parents who have been to "boot camp"; we will have more soldiers for Christ...prepared for the battles they must face in the spiritual as well as all aspects of life.

Dear Porter,

Yes, indeed, my in-laws need to go to just such a boot camp .

Too often we hear, "Let's pray!" But what about all those who don't know how or who just mouth words wondering, all the time, is this what real "prayer" is about? Does God enjoy inflicting such pain on us?

When my cousin Irenaeus died at the age of 28, his father, my uncle, prayed a great deal by reading long prayers for long periods at a time.

He once asked me about prayer - is it meant to be so difficult, so painful? "It just tortures me so sometimes . . ."

I was young and restless at the time and I didn't know what to tell him.

Today I would, but then I couldn't.

And he's dead now.

I think our bishops and clergy need to do more to teach the laity about the mechanics and the "how to" of prayer, the life-line of the spiritual life.

And if a form of boot camp or a retreat is the way to do it, then, for heaven's sake, let's do it!!

Alex

I perceive that the main contemporary differences in Catholicism (Or the Protestant bolgna that's passed of as Roman Catholicism) and Orthodoxy is that even in the contemporary Orthodox Church, a Christian models himself to the Church (Jesus Christ) constantly striving for Theosis, seeking to be like God. Whereas in what is now called Roman Catholicism (But could more accuratly be called Roman Protestantism) A Church Member seek to bring God down to his level, the Church Member attempts to make God his servant rather than being a servant of God. (And I don't mean like the Incarnation, Passion, Death, and Ressurection.) If the Church Member doesn't want to Fast, then Fasting is Dispensed, if he finds guitars and tamborines entertaining then reverence in Church is ignored, if a woman doesn't want to cover her head in Church, then she doesn't, if a woman wants to dress like a man (transvestite) then she does, if Church Members don't want to inconvenience themselves with attending Church during the week the Holy Day is moved to Sunday, etc.

Dear Friend,

Yes, who was it that said, "God made man in His own Image and Likeness - and then man returned the favour . . ."

Alex

Trust me , there are plenty of Roman Catholics who completely disagree with what the Roman Heirarchy has been doing concerning the humanization and modernization of the Latin Church.

Dear brother Alex,

Hello!

I believe the ROC recently made a synodal decision to permit contraception. From my understanding, contraception is no longer a sin in the ROC, whereas before it was only allowed under economy. I think the ROC have gone down the wrong path. I hope the rest of the EO are not infected by that liberal thinking.

For what it's worth, I believe the Catholic approach to marriage is more patristic than the EO approach. The present canonical standard of the EO is nowhere near the standard of the early Church. Besides, the nullification of Sacraments due to some prior impediment was a very real practice in the Church of the Seven Ecumenical Councils, so I don't think we can assign hypocrisy to the West so easily, at least not without condemning the Catholic Church as a whole. I find some of the EO allowances for divorce offensive to Christian sensibilities. For instance, the ROC permits divorce in case of mental disability or if a spouse is imprisoned indefinitely (I don't know about the Greeks, to be honest). That mindset is inconceivable to me, since I have worked with the mentally handicapable and have been involved in prison ministry.

Just my two cents.

Blessings,
Marduk

P.S. As I noted in another post, it is very difficult for me to connect to the Byzcath forum, so this may be my only post in a while. FYI, I finally translated to the Catholic Church and regard myself a (Coptic) Orthodox in communion with Rome.

Going back to the original topic of the post, and it's conncetion with divorce etc. We all agree more prayer and doctrinal formation is needed to deal with the divorce issue. My big attraction to the Eastern Church here is that while the Latin Church curently emphaisises Lectio Divina and meditation the eastern church still emphasises liturgical prayer. One of the great pluses of the Rosary in the latin church is that it at least gives some tradiitonal form to private prayer; lectio without direction can err too much towards private interpretation. And that is the great strength of the East and possibly the reason for it's divergence on some matters; its personal prayer has always benn liturgical, rather than devotional (I probably use those terms incorrectly, but I mean Prayerbooks as opposed to pular devotions like rosary or pseudo official like raccolta).

N

Read POPULAR devotions like rosary. Sorry.

Russian Orthodox Church Condemns Co...iscuity as Reasons for Population Crisis [lifesite.net]

"Russian Pharmacy Stops Selling Condoms With Church�s Blessing" [wwrn.org]

You may have also noticed the ROC was at the forefront of stopping a "Gay Pride" parade in Moscow. Counter that with what is happening in the West.

Andrew

Dear Andrew,

I'm glad to see the stance's taken by the Russian Orthodox Church. I do hope it continues because I really want to see that nation become 'holy' Russia once again.

Unfortunately, I believe at last count, 80% of the people did not believe in God, and it's abortion rate was one of the three highest in the world. Greece and Japan are the other two nations.

I was told by someone that the Russians they knew either gave a patronizing smirk when asked if they were Orthodox, or would honestly state that they do not completely trust the Church. It seems they have quite a way to go.

Zenovia

Zenovia

I guess after nearly a century of state support for both materialistic atheism and abortion that is not too surprising. The appallingly high abortion rate in Russia is certainly exacerbated by the economic conditions there. You may recall that in 2003 the Russian Federation placed the first restrictions on abortion since the fall of Communism, and I seem to recall reading somewhere that (thankfully) the rates of abortion are starting to fall there. I will say I am somewhat circumspect in being too critical of Russia since I live in a country with the economic means exist to support the millions of children that are aborted here every year, and where the Constitution is invoked to protect this form of mass killing.

I�ve heard there are Catholics who don�t accept all of the teachings of the church, who do not completely trust the church, or some who openly defy its authority. It�s funny the kind of stories we hear.

I�m glad the Russian Church does have a voice in society on many topics, and at least some people are listening. It seems like a positive sign that they were able to get the parade in Moscow cancelled. Would that were the case in Spain or Quebec were the destruction of the traditional family is well under way as alternative lifestyles have been given legal sanction.

Realistically it never will be, but no nation state ever truly has been or will be "holy". What we can say is hopefully the church will gain a voice in society that has clout and can garner action. The worst thing is that it would be de-fanged and marginalized.

Andrew

Dear Friends,

I think the Russian Orthodox Church has done one amazing job since Gorbachev!

And this despite the constant harassment by Western sects such as Roman Catholics and Protestants of all kinds . . .

Seriously, though, RCism should be supporting Russian Orthodoxy directly, period.

If it won't, then Rome should stop paying lip service to the whole notion of "Sister Church."

And we should consider this - Russia, Ukraine et al. went through so much under atheistic communism and religion is now taught in public schools there, with crosses and icons given to soldiers etc.

North Americans and Europeans haven't suffered at all under such a system, but keeps losing their grip on religion as a whole.

Eastern Europe is way ahead of us, I'd say!

Vozdrastviye!

Alex

Aid to the Church in Need has been shoveling money into Russia for years to support the Orthodox clergy. Especially appreciated in places where the priests were on a very low income and had families to support.

ICXC
NIKA

Aid to the Church in Need is one of the best organizations anyone could support. I consider anything I give them to be money well spent.