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#106064 01/19/04 10:03 AM
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Does anyone know of good books on the Italo-Greek Catholic Church? I heard that this is the only Byzantine Church that maintained continuous communion with Rome. Thank you.

In Christ,
Anthony

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Anthony-

You need to talk to Father Archdeacon John DeMeis, he sometimes posts here. But he is the President of the Our Lady of Grace Italo-Greek Catholic Misson in Staten Island,New York. (www.byzantines.net/OurLadyofGrace [byzantines.net])

Send him an e-mail, he is good about responding within a day at the most. Tell him, my prayers are with him!

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Thank you, Byzantine Leaner! I will contact Father Archdeacon and let him know of your prayers.

In Christ,
Anthony


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Originally posted by ByzantineLearner:
Anthony-

You need to talk to Father Archdeacon John DeMeis, he sometimes posts here. But he is the President of the Our Lady of Grace Italo-Greek Catholic Misson in Staten Island,New York. (www.byzantines.net/OurLadyofGrace [byzantines.net])

Send him an e-mail, he is good about responding within a day at the most. Tell him, my prayers are with him!

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The Maronites have never broken communion with Rome, although at times communication with the Eternal See was virtually impossible.

Also, I've heard it said that the Melkites didn't break communion either. When that scuffle about the Patriarch occurred, one faction sided with one Patriarch (the Antiochian Orthodox) and the other faction sided with another Patriarch (the Melkite Catholics) and maintained communion with Rome. Don't know much about that, though. I could be wrong.

Logos Teen

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Yes, I've heard the Melkites maintained dual communion with both Rome and Constantinople for a few hundred years after 1054. I think the split occurred in the Church of Antioch sometime during the 1700s.

In Christ,
Anthony

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Originally posted by Teen Of The Incarnate Logos:
The Maronites have never broken communion with Rome, although at times communication with the Eternal See was virtually impossible.

Also, I've heard it said that the Melkites didn't break communion either. When that scuffle about the Patriarch occurred, one faction sided with one Patriarch (the Antiochian Orthodox) and the other faction sided with another Patriarch (the Melkite Catholics) and maintained communion with Rome. Don't know much about that, though. I could be wrong.

Logos Teen

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Incredible as this is, the best book to read on the Italo-Greeks is still, after all these years, Adrian Fortescue's *the Uniate Eastern Churches*. It's high time someone did a new book-length study. Meanwhile, do read Fortescue. Incognitus

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Incognitus,

Thank you for the reference! I will be getting Attwater's book on the Eastern Catholic Churches in the mail very soon. I will try to order Fortescue's as well.

In Christ,
Anthony

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Originally posted by incognitus:
Incredible as this is, the best book to read on the Italo-Greeks is still, after all these years, Adrian Fortescue's *the Uniate Eastern Churches*. It's high time someone did a new book-length study. Meanwhile, do read Fortescue. Incognitus

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Dear Anthony,

This Church is also mentioned in Peter Binn's fine work, "The Christian Orthodox Churches."

The Italo-Albanian-Greek Byzantine Catholics in the USA have excellent websites/links and excellent printed information, all of which can be searched for on the net or accessed through Archdeacon John deMeis, as mentioned above.

Also, don't forget to query the parents back in Calabria (Eparchy of Lungro)[eparchia.lungro@tiscalinet.it] or [curia@lungro.chiesa.chiesacattolica.it] and Sicily (Eparchy of Piana degli Albanesi) [www.chiesadisicilia.org/diocesi/Piana/d_piana.htm].

They are vivid and living reminders that everything and everybody south of Rome were once Greek/Byzantine Rite.

If you need some more specifics (addresses or bibliography), I can dig them up from my files. Just PM me.

In Christ,
Andrew

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Quote
Originally posted by Andrew J. Rubis:
The Italo-Albanian-Greek Byzantine Catholics in the USA have excellent websites/links and excellent printed information, all of which can be searched for on the net or accessed through Archdeacon John deMeis, as mentioned above.
Anthony,

The website of Our Lady of Grace (NY) has an excellent history of the Byzantine Italians.

Our Lady of Grace Mission [byzantines.net]

That of Our Lady of Wisdom in Las Vegas, while nicely done, is not, as yet, particularly informative as to its ecclesial heritage.

Our Lady of Wisdom Italo-Greek Parish [3d4life.net]

Quote
Originally posted by Andrew J. Rubis:
Also, don't forget to query the parents back in Calabria (Eparchy of Lungro)[eparchia.lungro@tiscalinet.it] or [curia@lungro.chiesa.chiesacattolica.it] and Sicily (Eparchy of Piana degli Albanesi) [www.chiesadisicilia.org/diocesi/Piana/d_piana.htm].
The Eparchy of Lungro formerly had a very nice website, but it seems to have become inactive. The Italian Bishop's Conference site includes a webpage devoted to the Eparchy (unfortunately, it is in Italian). Regretably, the webpage of the Eparchy of Piana degli Albanesi, which Andrew references, has been inactive for some time now.

Eparchy of Lungro degli Italo-Albanesi [chiesacattolica.it]

There is a third jurisdiction. This year is the millenium of the founding, by Saint Nilus, of the monastery which is the last surviving remnant of the Italo-Byzantine monastic tradition. It has a beautiful website, which is available in English and other languages.

Exarchic Abbey & Territorial Monastery of Santa Maria di Grottaferrata [abbaziagreca.it]

The Catholic Near East Welfare Association has a summary of the Church at its site.

CNEWA: Italo-Albanian Catholic Church [cnewa.org]

There were a couple of excellent articles in DIAKONIA a few years ago: one was co-authored by Father George Gallaro of my Eparchy; can't remember who wrote the other. If you're interested, I'll find the references for them.

Many years,

Neil


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yeah, several Eastern Churches claim to have maintained constant unity with Rome. I'm not suited to argue it, actually, I hope it's true. I use the Catholic Encyclopedia a lot--I like it a lot, (though I hope not to get a lot of criticism for that). (www.newadvent.org [newadvent.org], y'all know) It argues that the Italo-Greeks were the only ones even referring to counter arguements. I don't know how much it really matters, but I just thought I'd note that. In Christ!


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Originally posted by Laudetur Iesus:
yeah, several Eastern Churches claim to have maintained constant unity with Rome. I'm not suited to argue it, actually, I hope it's true. I use the Catholic Encyclopedia a lot--I like it a lot, (though I hope not to get a lot of criticism for that). (www.newadvent.org [newadvent.org], y'all know) It argues that the Italo-Greeks were the only ones even referring to counter arguements. I don't know how much it really matters, but I just thought I'd note that. In Christ!
Laudeter,

Both the Italo-Greco-Albanians and the Maronites continuously maintained comunion/unity with Rome, although the latter went through a prolonged period during which they were not in communication with Rome due to the isolated nature of their geographic situation.

The only troubles anyone has with using newadvent as a source is:

(1) its lack of currency - it is a copy of the 1913 ed. of the Catholic Encyclopedia and, consequently, its content on many topics is dated (an example is the entry on the Italo-Greeks, which describes a community with no hierarchy of its own, other than an episcopus ordinans, versus a Church with 2 eparchies and an exarchial abbey, as is the case today); and,

(2) its reflection of thinking/philosophy that was acceptable in 1913, but is no longer (again exemplified by the entry on the Italo-Greeks, which is rife with Latin triumphalism, the viewpoint that the Roman or Latin Rite is superior to all others).

For historical information, it's not a bad quick reference source, within the limitations of any encyclopedia - that is, it can only cover so much and in so much detail - it doesn't take the place of primary source documents or of secondary research works that delve deeply into a single subject or a limited range of topics.

Many years,

Neil


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Regarding the Italo-Albanian Greek Church of S. Italy and Sicily: while they can and should speak of a continuos line of communion with Rome, they most definitely were not always under the jurisdiction of Rome.

Their links were with the East, Thessaloniki and Constantinople. Later, after the arrival of the Arberesh (Albanians) after 1450, many were under the Patriarch of Ohrid until the Sultans suppressed that Patriarchate and placed all "Rum" (Orthodox) in the Balkans under the Pat. of Constantinople. At that point, things go murky; the abovementioned loss of communication was also their situation in relation to Constantinople.

Eventually, as the East/West split hardened, they were forced to either accept Rome's jurisdiction or be entirely snuffed out, as they almost were in the 1600's. The "Albanian" Pope Clement (1700) was the one who really saved them.

There is much evidence existing at local archival levels, as I have seen, which has not been processed into the larger "broad-brush" historical texts.

In Christ,
Andrew

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Dear Anthony,

There used to be an "Italo-Greek Orthodox Church" in New York State somewhere . . .

They published Akathists to St Lucy and Italian Saints and while I ordered some, I somehow never received them.

Their site is now disabled, but it would have been interesting to find out more about them.

This Church has always fascinated me as I had relatives who belonged to it in Italy.

Alex

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Dear Alex,

Do you mean the one in Utica? I had written to the Archimandrite there a few months ago. He wrote me back a few times, but since then I have been unable to find their website. I think they may be entering one of the canonical jurisdictions soon, which would be great.

My family is from Sicily and Naples. I would love to visit there and see some of the parishes belonging to the Italo-Greek-Albanian Church.

In Christ,
Anthony

Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Dear Anthony,

There used to be an "Italo-Greek Orthodox Church" in New York State somewhere . . .

They published Akathists to St Lucy and Italian Saints and while I ordered some, I somehow never received them.

Their site is now disabled, but it would have been interesting to find out more about them.

This Church has always fascinated me as I had relatives who belonged to it in Italy.

Alex

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Dear Andrew

Is there a huge difference between Italo-Albanian Church and the Albanian Orthodox liturgy?

Are the first ones latinized? I had the idea that those in Italy had kept Greek for the liturgical celebration and part Old Albanian, but that they have now introduced vulgar tongues (Italian, English). How accurate is this?

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