www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West The Crescent "under" the Cross

We are in a Holy War.....again.
We can tip toe around it.
We can be politically correct to our destruction.
There is strength in numbers, and if for no other reason, both Catholic and Orthodox Christians should forgive and forget all past insults, indescretions, political maneuverings, canons, rubrics, spirituality, whatever. We are in a Holy War again! Russia's magnificent cathedrals are adorned with Three Barred Crosses, placed above the "Crescent" as a sign that they conquered the "infidels" hundreds of years ago, with good reason. Christ MUST be over all other religions "dreamed" up or otherwise. We are the "True Faith"..no if's and's or buts, and we should, once again, become "the Church Militant!" We have no other choice.

It's good fortune there is no draft for such a thing and Innocent III is dead.

I agree we are at war, but with whom? Radicals and terrorists come from all faiths. We have had a few ourselves. Let us be careful not to act with blind rage against an unseen enemy. It is the Master of Lies and not any ideology or prelate that is behind our current situation.

Dmitri

Dear Friends,

Christ's Kingdom is not of this world.

The question is not whether we approve of placing His Cross above the Crescent.

But would He?

Alex

Some would make the point that the Israelis are attempting to "put the crescent 'under' the Star of David."

What a price they are paying!

One should also remember that, not long ago, the mighty Soviet Union tried--for over a decade--to put the crescent under the sickle and hammer...in a fourth world nation...Afghanistan.

What a price they paid..and are still paying, for Afghanistan was not only their Vietnam, but also their Waterloo.

In modern Russia, the Orthodox are on friendlier terms with Russian Muslims than Russian Catholics, since the Orthodox and Muslims are both engaged in a bloody war against Cechen fanatics; a war that has once again humbled the Russians as they lick the wounds inflicted on them--pitilessly--by a rag -tag army of relgious zealots that is holding its own against a far superior--in technology and number of troops--Russian Orthodox and Muslim military force.

One must also face the fact that the majority of today's Christians--Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant-- are only nominal believers.

Lukewarm and sunshine believers certainly do not comprise the material from which fanatical crusaders/jihadists are made.

Salaam...the way of common sense and sanity.

Abdur

[ 05-22-2002: Message edited by: traveler ]

Dear Friends,

And, after all, the Crescent and Star are actually Byzantine symbols of the Virgin Mary, taken from the book of Revelation.

Such symbolism as placing this emblem of another religion under another may have been fine in a previous age.

I like to think that Western Christians have evolved a bit since the Crusades .

Alex

"EVERYONE MUST BE COMMITTED TO PEACE"

VATICAN CITY, MAY 22, 2002 (VIS)

- At 9 a.m. today, the Pope departed from Fiumicino airport in Rome for Azerbaijan, and after traveling 3,111 kilometers in four hours, landed in the international airport of Baku, the capital. There he was welcomed by the president of the republic, Heydar Aliyev, political and civil authorities, three members of the Salesian community and senior members of the diplomatic corps.


After getting off the airplane, the Holy Father kissed the country's soil which two children offered him in a shallow receptacle, as is traditional when he visits a country for the first time.


At the beginning of his speech, the Holy Father recalled that this trip takes place during the 10th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between Azerbaijan and the Holy See.


After emphasizing the role of the great religions in the country that coexist in "a spirit of tolerance and mutual acceptance," he said: "I hope and pray to God that any remaining tensions will soon be overcome and that all will find peace in justice and truth."


"From this gateway of civilization which is Azerbaijan," he continued, "I address today a heartfelt appeal to those lands experiencing the upheavals of conflict. ...

Everyone must be committed to peace. But it must be true peace, based on mutual respect, on the rejection of fundamentalism and every form of imperialism, on the pursuit of dialogue as the only effective means of resolving tensions, so that entire nations are saved from the cruelty of violence."


Religions, he went on, "should not be used as a tragic excuse for enmities which have their origin elsewhere. No one has the right to call upon God to justify their own selfish interests. ... I ask all religious leaders to reject all violence as offensive to the name of God and to be tireless promoters of peace and harmony, with respect for the rights of one and all."

John Paul II ended by addressing all Christians, and in particular the Catholic community of the country, assuring them that the "tragic difficulties" that they endured "during the time of communism will be compensated for by the Lord with the gift of lively faith, exemplary moral commitment and local vocations for pastoral and religious services."


After the welcoming ceremony, the Pope is scheduled to go to the Monument of the Fallen for the Independence of Azerbaijan. Later he will go to the presidential palace at Baku to pay a courtesy visit to the president of the republic and there he will meet with representatives of religions, politics, culture and art.

PV-AZERBAIJAN/ARRIVAL/BAKU VIS 020522 (430)
SUMMARY

Dear Abdur,

So you like the Pope too, eh?

We have even more in common!

Alex

Doctor,

Very much so.

He helps skeptical types--like me-- believe in God, when it would be "more logical," not to believe.

Doesn't it make sense to believe that His Holiness has been sent into the world to rescue--at least some souls--from atheism, even if those persons are non-Christians? It is impossible for me not to believe what I have experienced.
God knows no borders, eh?

He is the slava of Slavs: Latin, Byzantine, and Ottoman.

I just have deep feelings for His Holiness.

Admiration for and loyalty to Christian leaders by Muslims is not that unusual.

I had an Albanian Muslim friend who, when he lived in the old Yugoslavia, would travel to Rome on pilgrimage, as well as visit various Christian holy men for advice and spiritual instruction, in Yugoslavia. Yet, he was a devout Muslim who built the first mosque in our city.

The real world of the Balkans--sometimes--is very different from the often artificial, abstract, and cut and paste distorted images we see and read about
via the media.

But unfortunately there are some very evil, if not diabolical, Christians and Muslims who would like nothing more but to convince the non-believing world that Christianity and Islam are nothing more than synonyms for criminality and superstition.

They are often successful.

Salaam,

Abdur

[ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: traveler ]

I have no doubt that the pope will one day travel throughout the Muslim world and be liked by most of them.

And when that happens, he will be the only figure on the world stage that will have no borders and universal "spiritual" jurisdiction. A kind of "World Leader" or "Universal Moral Teacher".

I hope you are right, though I believe your reference to "a kind of World Leader," is used in a context very different from mine.

I have no problem cooperating with a papal leader who could--under God's sovereign reign--bring peace to this world. All religious veterans want nothing more.

I can make a case--based on the core teachings of Islam on good and evil--of why Muslims could participate in a "Moral World Order," guided by the papacy.

Salaam,

Abdur

PS-Considering the real world humanitarian benefits of such a cooperative world effort, is there any practice or belief within Orthodoxy that would prevent the Orthodox from participating?

[ 05-23-2002: Message edited by: traveler ]