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#107905 02/23/06 04:29 AM
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There was, it seems, an Old-Ritualist conference in 1779 which regulated the reception of "Nikonian" clergy - this was to be accomplished by chrismation, provided that it was reasonably certain that the cleric to be received had been baptized by triple immersion.

Incognitus

#107906 02/23/06 07:14 AM
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Dear incognitus,

my reference is an article by D. Treadgold in "The Peasant in 19th cent. Russia" (1968, Stanford U.P.).Some of his stuff sounds wrong to me, but he states that a number of priestists appealed after this council to be received into communion with the Nikonian Church, forming the basis of the Odinoversty. He clearly doen't know what a Uniate is though.

Anyway. For your info.

NW

#107907 02/23/06 09:28 AM
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Is it right to infer from your comments that a lot of priested groups have emerged since from the priestless? In a way I find that interesting, since one of the things that comes through in the Roman Rite is also the fact that parishes in Australia can't imagine being without clergy, with some exceptions. Lay people consistently express a desire to change church discipline or the understanding of the Eucharist to deal with the problem, rathere than take on reponsibility for the parish community. I probably generalise, Pavel in rural WA might differ on that! And the Eastern Rites view things differently. But I wonder if it reflects the desire of people in the West for leadership or guidance, and the insecurities and difficulties of having community our fractured societies.
Ned, even in the 19th century you can see groups reestablishing a hierarchy, most notably with the Bila Krinitsa soglas. I don't think it is really any Western notion, but perhaps the idea that the sacramental life helps keep the community intact as well as fosters growth.

The most recent movements in reestablishing the priestly order among the priestless have generally been in the diaspora, such as in Erie, Alaska, etc.

I think in part it is actually a movement to protect against the undue and unfortunate influence of modern Western culture and society, a sort of spiritual "circling the wagons" around a priestly hierarchy for a fuller sacramental and catechetical life for the community, especially for the children and teens.
FDD

#107908 02/23/06 08:13 PM
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Actually there have been several recent examples of priestless Old-Ritualists in Russia and the "near abroad" being received into the Russian Orthodox Old-Ritualist Church, now headed by Metropolitan Cornelius.

Incognitus

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