www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Romania Churches to Lure Tourists

Way to go, my Bulgarian brother!

Pan Administrator, let's end this thing already. It hasn't gone anywhere for a while now and I apologize for any role I might have played in flogging that poor deceased pony.

--tim

And when you bury the horse, drive a stake through its evil heart so it doesn't rise from the grave at sunrise.

But Pope Klement had NOTHING to do with the Cyrillic alphabet! ???

I was talking about the blessed St Klement, who became bishop of Ochrid. He was the leading disciple of SS Cyril (Kyril) and Methodius (Metodi) and the man responsible for creating the Cyrillic alphabet with the help of the other disciples, amongst them St Naum.

So in fact, the history is well known and this is why the brother saints and their disciples hold a PARTICULARLY important place in Bulgarian society.

And please...enough with the Ukrainian flag waving. Fine be proud of your ancient homeland but stop trying to make it that the Ukraine is holier than thou, greater than all..it is getting tiresome and this forum is not for this. Go find a Ukranian one if you desire to discuss this...but I doubt that many here actually care to continue with this topic. And it is also interesting to note that the Pope paid great tribute to Bulgaria during his Apostolic Visit, noting the great importance it played in the Christianisation of the Slavs. The late Sir Steven Runciman, you would find agrees with me...or will you accuse him of being an agent for the devilish Moscow patriachate determined to wipe out Ukranian history?

Please...

Anton

[I have a different opinion on the matter, and that is: 'The truth shall set you free'.]

Yes Hritzko, let us pray that 'Our Lord and Saviour' may take away the scales of nationalist pride, politics, and ethnic hatred from your eyes so that you may better understand the true purpose of the Church. And that is to preach the Gospel OF CHRIST (not Ukraine) to the entire world!

Only then will you understand the true purpose of the Church AND IT WILL SET YOU FREE!

OrthoMan

Well, flogging a dead horse will certainly do the horse no further harm. Besides, the discussion concerns real live people whom we should be much more aware of than we often are. There is much more to the community in Transcarpathia than an ethnic question - and it would be nice to know much more about them. Besides, I'm keenly interested in what Hritzko reports on his telephone conversation(s). Speaking of which,
Dear Hritzko - you certainly have no need dto apologize to me. I knew you were engaging in the sort of biting satire that I enjoy, and the thought the you were deliberately insulting the Hieromartyr Theodore never even crossed my mind. My only concerns were a) that the names of saints should not be mangled as a general principle, and b) that others might not grasp the point and could have felt offended. Without reference to any specific institution, I've been driving my friends batty all weeked with that lovely phrase "the school of hallelujah!".
Incognitus

Dear Orthoman, Tim, and ByzTEN,

The transition from a socialist/communist society into one of free markets has created a lot of poverty and difficulties for people in Eastern Europe.

Over the past 15 years I, my family, friends, and community have volunteered our time on the following projects relating to every region of Ukraine (Zakarpattia included);

(1) Raised money to purchase Ukrainian language bibles, then smuggled (late 1980's) them into Soviet Ukraine. Bibles in the people's native language were not available at the time because the Moscow Patriarch banned them.

(2) Raised funds, materials, and toys for several orphanages.

(3) Raised funds for church restoration projects (x3)

(4) Raised funds and organized resources for the 'Children of Chernobyl' projects which has now helped thousands of children, here in North America and in Ukraine, who have serious medical problems due to the world's worst nuclear accident. They also assist in other medical / humanitarian aid projects throughout the country (ie; mine accidents)

Children of Chernobyl Relief Fund [brama.com]

(5) Raised funds and assited in the 'Emergency Medical Aid for Ukraine' project which has been the only resource for pediatric neonatal care in Ukraine. Our youth group 'SUM' was featured on the acclaimed PBS series 'The Visionaries' for it's outstanding pioneering work with children with severe health problems and no medical resources to help them with.

Emergency Medical Aid for Ukraine - part 1. [ukrweekly.com]

Emergency Medical Aid for Ukraine - part 2. [ukrweekly.com]

(6) Raised funds, materials, and 'other' resources for homeless children / teenagers shelter who are often abused or neglected.

(7) Raised funds, materials, and 'other' resources for soup kitchens for elderly and disabled people without families.

(8) Collected used computers and books to help children and teens who otherwise would never have access to such modern marvels.

(9) Collected funds to build new Greek-Catholic Patriarchal Cathedral in the capital of Kyiv.

(10) Collected funds to restore churches and build commemorative chapels.

(11) Participated in organization of camps for orphaned children, including collection of money and material to run them.

(12) Collected funds and materials for Emergency Relief for flood victims in Zakarpattia Oblast.

We remain associated with all of the above projects to some degree but I have recently skewed my time to the two which are most active in Boston: (1) Emergency Medical Aid for Ukraine, and (2) Children of Chernobyl Relief Fund.

The religious oriented charitable projects are directly related to the re-establishment of the Greek-Catholic Church which was severely damaged during the Soviet era.

The non-religious projects are based on 'need' and are open to ALL citizens of Ukraine regardless of their religious, cultural, national, or other orientation / affiliation ie; Ukrainians, Russians, Poles, Rumanians, Slovaks, Greeks, Jews, Tatars, etc....

QUESTION FOR ORTHOMAN:

What part of my volunteer activities (which consume every free moment of my life) do you think that Jesus Christ would have a problem with ?

and,

Do you think that any of these activities are less Christian than spreading the Gospel ?


QUESTION FOR TIM:

What projects should I have cancelled in Zakarpattia because you do not approve of Ukrainian Social Christian Nationalists ?

I will gladly tell the Greek-Catholics in Zakarpattia your wishes. In fact I would be happy to publish them in Mukachevo and Uzhhorod newspapers as follows:

The following charitable projects have been cancelled in your area because 'Tim' (with your church's name) DOES NOT APPROVE of us or our activities: (list of projects........)


FOR ByzTEN

As an American who was raised on this continent, you should open your heart to those who are far less fortunate than you. Jesus would approve - in fact I'm sure he would encourage it. Think twice before your pierce someone's heart - it may be Jesus'.

Hrizko

I only wanted to pierce the heart of the eternal wrangling that has gone on in this thread. Your works of charity are admirable, and I am quite sure that people in that area need all the help they can get.

You know, you've done this a number of times already to other people. I didn't write anything about what you're talking about. In fact, I don't even know what you're talking about.

I just want this thread to end. It feels like it started back when Cyril and Methodius were young pups.

--tim

Dear Incognitus,

I'm glad it made you smile, but I thought your retyped version was even more funny: "shcool of Hallelujah " It definitely has a Yiddish sound to it .

Hritzko

Dear Tim and ByzTEN,

Please consider my discussion with you on the subject matter of this thread closed.

Hritzko

[What part of my volunteer activities (which consume every free moment of my life) do you think that Jesus Christ would have a problem with ?]

None

and,

[Do you think that any of these activities are less Christian than spreading the Gospel ? ]

No. But you are mixing apples and oranges here. This is supposed to be a forum to discuss religious issues, not national or political interests or ethnic hatred. The problem is that you are unable to separate the two.

Only you can answer if your admirable acts of charity are more a result of a love for Christ or a love for Ukraine. Because from your posts one can only assume it is more for Ukraine than it is for Christ.

OrthoMan

Dear Orthoman,

I prefer to think of it as mixing carrots and beans.

To love and assist with all your spirit a desperate and hopeless peoples you have never met, will never financially benefit from, and will never receive any gratituide from, is in my humble opinion what Jesus taught us to do.

When the Holy Father visited Ukraine in 2001 he told the young people of the land not to emigrate because their country needed them. He whent on to tell them that they should do all possible to build a new country which had been ravaged by the evils of communism. You can therefore conclude that for the pure of heart who do not seek any financial gain or gratitude;

'To love Ukraine is to love Christ, and to love Christ is to love Ukraine'

I have yet to meet someone I hate. Further, our circle of friends are so varied that you would assume you were at the United Nations when visiting our home at Christmas.

However, due to the act of genocide and bloody history of my ancestral homeland this past century by a peoples to the North, I do have reason to fear them. You must come to terms with the fact that there are millions of people in Eastern Europe who still fear the Muscovite Empire due to the attrocities they have committed over the past few generations, and aggression they continue to exhibit to heighbooring countries. It will take time and clear evidence for that fear to subside.

Hritzko

Those who do not like the discussion have a quite simple alternative - don't post on this thread and don't bother reading the postings of those who do.
The assertion that we are not talking about a religious matter is startling - the Bible teaches us that the sort of Christian social-charity work that Hritzko mentions is quite pleasing in the eyes of God, who considers this to be an excellent form of worship.
Is Ortho-Man unfamiliar with Eastern Europe? In that part of the world, talking about religion for an hour is guaranteed to involve sixty minutes of politics. No matter what's on the civil lawbooks, people do not consider that a rigid division exists between Church and State.

Dear Hritzko,
Glad you liked the Yiddishization of that phrase. Seems appropriate; Anatievka is (I assume) a fictitious village, but it's located in Ukraine, albeit in what was then Tsarist territory.
Incognitus

And will you just stop with all the talk about the evil Muscovite Empire...the way you use those two words seem to imply some kind of evilness emunating from them.

Bulgaria suffered 500 years of Ottoman slavery...our people were persecuted, our religion was persecuted, priests, monks, nuns were killed. Villages were set ablaze. Yet I have no fear of Turkey or the Turks. In fact I find Turks to be some of the friendliest people I know, and you would find that both people are very welcoming of each other...yes horrible atrocities happeneded, people were slaughtered but what is done is done.

There seems to be little point in constantly rehasing martyrdom complex which would appear you asre suffering from. I am sorry if this insults you but it seems that most of your posts are filled with storie of Russian perfidy and whatnot.

PLEASE -- enough. This is a religious forum. It is for your western brothers and sisters to come and discover about the other churches within their communion. It is also a place where Protestants can come and discover the East and what it offers. It is also a place for EO and EC to meet and discuss matters pertaining to Eastern Christianity.

This is not a site like Network54 where people constantly barge on about nationalism and anger at all the people they feel have slighted them. To accuse your fellow posters and especially the Administrator of this site as being revisionists and spreading lies is totally unChristian and seems to show that you are not prepared to accept the validity of other people's views.

You have not addressed the post with the history pertaining to the Cyrillic alphabet either. If you going to make claims about history, at least do some private study and try to understant the period before you start making comments.

Anton

incognitus ,

One wonders how Catholic_Man feels about a thread he started about what Romanian Churches are planning to do viz-a-viz tourism then going off totally tangent about Ukranian minorities and other totally unconnected things. Other threads that have gone off tangent have been locked - why should this be any different? If there is such a strong feeling to discuss such issues, then feel free to start a seperate topic.

You say that if people are not interested in the topic, they need not read it but if that happens who will correct people when they make wrong comments? As numerous people have stated plenty of times, there seems to be a movement with Ukranians to glorify all and sundry within their community at the expense of everyone else.

Anton