www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Theotokos: ever virgin and miraculous childbirth

Now that we are approaching the blessed event of the Incarnation, a thought comes to mind again this year.

The Roman Church teaches that the Virgin Mother was Ever Virgin, meaning that, not only did she never share in conjugal relations, but that she had a miraculous birth of the Christ child, without the usual pain and physical distress of childbirth. This is a theological construct that derives from her sinless nature, and that the pain of childbirth was a product of the Fall of Adam and Eve.

Does the Eastern Church share in this view? If so, is there other evidence to support this argument in favor of a miraculous birth?

I am interested in scripture, Tradition, and writings of the early Church fathers which might shed light on how this teaching came about.

Thank you for your discussion of this timely matter.

Peace in Christ and the Theotokos,
Tammy

Dear Tammy,

You are referring to the Incarnation on the 25th of March - the Annunciation?

You may want to use this site's search engine to review the rather bloody battles that we've had over whether "sinless" ("anamartitos") is a term that Eastern Christians may use in reference to the Theotokos.

But enough of for Byz.Cath Fathers (i.e. posters on this Forum, including myself): Regarding early Eastern fathers, you'll find a variety of views, none of which includes a reference to her as "sinless." Most disturbing to Western Christians would be Chrysostom's writings, insisting that she had the sin of "vanity" due to her unique position in the salvation of the world. But all of these writings (Chrysostom's and others') were just opinions. They were neither anathematized as heretical nor canonized as doctrine or dogma.

In Christ,
Andrew

Thanks for bringing this subject up.

The idea that the Theotokos may have given the birth of Christ in some more miraculous way than a natural childbirth is (to my way of thinking) totally absurd.

Another case of mythologizing around the virgin.

+T+
Michael

PS "Oh Yeah" Ultimately it is what the Church believes that is important and not my own individual oppinons. The positions of both East and West, I believe but cannot be totally possitive about is that Mary was a Virgin, Pre Partu, In Partu and Post Partum. She is ever Virgin.
It is not a rediculous notion in the least.

And although I cannot quote the liturgical texts of the Eastern Church, I believe I have heard them sung several times about the Virgin not crying out in the pangs of childbirth.

Stephanos I

That is not to say she didn't experience the pangs of childbirth.

There are a lot of poetic expressions from which we must be careful not to read too much.

Mary is the great example, not the great exception.

+T+
Michael

Jerome the great Scripture scholar on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary:
'holy Mary, blessed Mary, Mother and Virgin, virgin before giving birth and virgin after giving birth! I marvel that a virgin is born of a virgin and that after the virgin's birth, his Mother remained a virgin."

1. He clearly states the perpetual virginity of Mary. She is rightly defined as aeiparthenos the title given to Mary by the Fifth General Council of Constantinople in 533 AD.

In general the Fathers concieved (virginity) as non injury to the hymen, and accordingly taught that Mary gave birth in miraculous fashion without the opening of the womb and injury to the hymen and consequently also without pain.

The Fathers with few eceptions, vouch for the miraculous character of the birth.
Christ's miraculous emergence from the unimpared womb of the Virgin Mother finds its ultimate explanation in the Omnipotence of God. St Augustine says: "in such things the whole ground of the mystery is the might of Him who permits it to happen."

Stephanos I

I have found some of the liturgical texts to which I refered to, from the Eastern Church.
'I see you wound about with swaddling clothes and percieve that the seal of my virginity is still intact, for it was you that kept it intact , when you deigned to be born, my little Child, God before all ages."

and again: "O you, my fruit! O you, my life! Through you, I knew that I am what I am and that you are my God. Because of the inviolate seal of my virginity. I can proclaim that you are the immutable Word become flesh. I knew no seed, but I know that you put and end to my corruption, for I remained pure after you were born from me. You left my womb just as you found it: you kept it whole."

Stephanos I

A good portion of the Litany to the Blessed Virgin, we, (Latin) Catholics implore her in exultation:

Holy Mary, pray for us
Holy Mother of God, pray for us
Holy Virgin of virgins, ...
Mother of Christ, ...
Mother of Divine Grace, ...
Mother most pure, ...
Mother most chaste, ...
Mother inviolate, ...
Mother undefiled, ...

Now, is it incorrect to exalt the Mother of God in this wise?

Amado

Another thing, you Eastern have implanted into our Latin mind to leave the mysteries of God to God, unexplained!

Can we please consider the perpetual virginity of the Mother of God and her Son's miraculous birth as two of His inexplicable mysteries?

Amado

So you are telling me that 530 years after Christ's birth the Fathers have determined that Saint Mary still had her hymen intact? These guys are good!

Anyway, with God all things are possible, if He can raise descendants of Abraham from stones I am sure He can restore Mary's hymen sufficiently to satisfy the most discriminating critic.

In the real world many women do not have much of a hymen to begin with, and the presence or lack of one is no real indicator of virginity.

The point of her perpetual virginity is that she was perfectly chaste and also celibate, this did not require her to forgo normal labor, in fact it is almost an insult to the millions of mothers out there who have identified with Mary as the prime exemplar of motherhood.

What then was to rush to find a place in Bethlehem? Did she not feel the onset, would she not need a private space?

Perhaps the Fathers were convinced that a woman could not endure the pangs of childbirth without muttering something regretful, and so she needed protection from it. I disagree with any such notion, the woman standing at the foot of the cross could certainly endure a normal childbirth.

The Truth of God Incarnate is marvelous enough, it requires no further embellishment of pious fiction from anyone.

This adds a whole new meaning to Doctor of the Church.

Just in case it wasn't clear from some of the early posts, the Eastern Church certainly adheres to this title. For example, in the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, Mary is referred to as "ever-virgin" at least seven times.

During the proskomeida:
In litanies great and small, and before the creed:
In the Only-begotten:
At the anamnesis:
Before the dismissal:

It is generally held that one should refrain from overly detailed analysis of just how the Mother of God remained a virgin before, during, and after bearing her Son.
That said, there is a modern reluctance to acknowledge the physical dimension to the integrity of her virginity, which the early Fathers, and the apocryphal books did not shy away from....

Can it be that the Roman Church has outdone the East in magnifying the Mother of God in this instance?
-D

Here's a nice booklet [copticchurch.org] that includes a section (pgs 23-28) on the perpetual virginity of Mary, with numerous quotes and citations from the Fathers. It is clear this claim meant a miraculous delivery that left "seals intact".
For example, from the Homilies of Saint John Chrysostom:

I don't think so. I am sure that you can find those within the Roman church too who think it important to "demythologize Mary". :rolleyes:

O Theotokos, the shadow of the Law passed away when grace came, for as the bush burned without being consumed, you gave birth while a virgin and remained a virgin. In place of the pillar of fire there arose the Sun of Justice; in place of Moses came Christ our God. He is the Savior of our souls.

This is the verse the Church uses to affirm the Virginity of the Most Holy Theotokos

Ezekial 44:
1
Then he brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, facing the east; but it was closed.
2
He said to me: This gate is to remain closed; it is not to be opened for anyone to enter by it; since the LORD, the God of Israel, has entered by it, it shall remain closed.