www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Are Eastern Catholics truly gaining ground?

I think that ECs need to stop poaching RCs if any true growth is going to occur. In fact, I don't think that converting RCs is really growth at all.
Since Orthodox are obviously off limits, ECs need to aggressively target:
1. Protestants
2. Non-Christians
3. Non-practising Eastern European immigrants
4. Non-religious people

The best way is to follow the Orthodox-chuck the Code of Canon Law in the garbage, ordain married men, use Orthodox liturgical materials (no need to reinvent the wheel) and so on. I'll admit I'm not as familiar with ECism as most people here, but it just doesn't seem like they are building new mission churches like the Orthodox are.

I agree.

Orthodox Student and I have found common ground.

That wasn't too bad at all.

Michael

Shlomo Orthodox Student,
To let you know, Eastern Catholicism covers 4 Tradtions, of which the Byzantine is one. But within my Tradition (Antiochene) we are growing and adding missions in Arizona, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Ohio, Florida, North Carolina and South Carolina.

There is hope to start an Ethiopian Exarchate in the United States within the next couple of years also, the first Catholic Exarchate of the Alexandrian Tradition outside of Africa.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

I have nothing whatever against evangelizing those mentioned. But why should RCs be off limits?
Incognitus

Hi Tammy,

Ofcourse it is perhaps the most beautiful iconographic image as it was written by the our blessed Lady herself!

Also, carved statuary was very beatiful and inspirational within its proper context which was the Gothic Cathedral. Also, they were then carved in stone, not plaster. I believe that the West had aspects of beauty in this period which were comparable, if not superior, to the beauty and awe of a Byzantine church. Unfortunately, the RC's, in the latter part of the 20th century decided to drop the beauty and go for the mundane.

I still maintain that the Gothic style cathedral is one of the most divinely inspiring worship atmospheres that exists in the world.

I will never forget the first time I took my daughter, who was about five years old at the time, to St. Patrick's Cathedral in NYC....this little girl who had been to our beautiful Greek Orthodox churches here and in Greece every Sunday since infancy, turned around and said, "mommy, this is THE most beautiful church I have EVER seen"....what's that saying, 'out of the mouth of babes....'

Fondly in Christ our Lord,
Alice

Avete Orthodox Student:

I would urge you to read The Holy Father�s apostolic letter of May 1995.

www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_pau...-ii_apl_02051995_orientale-lumen_en.html [vatican.va]

Simply, His Holiness commands the west to learn to love the east as His Holiness does. As Eastern Catholics it is our obligation to invite RCs and educate them to the east.

Reference: LIGHT OF THE EAST, AGUIDE TO EASTERN CATHOLICISM FOR THE WESTERN CATHOLICS, by George Appleyard

If indeed they decide to stay it is a choice they make. The victor is the Catholic Church, the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ! In the Catholic Church we do have choices of how we worship God as Creator, Savior and Sanctifier.

Pax et bonus,

Scott

Dear Orthodox Student,

Actually, I think that our welcoming of Roman Catholics to our parishes is indeed a form of growth - although part of a kind of "preaching to the converted" paradigm.

I think that Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox adhere to a Christian tradition that the West in general has lost due to the schism of 1054 and subsequent issues.

The East's view of God as Holy Trinity, the glorified, resurrected Christ, the divinized glory of the Mother of God and the Saints, the focus on the eternity of Heaven - this "resurrectional optimism" of the East is infatuating to a West mired in the "death of God" rationalism of the 19th century and the religious indifference of the current one.

If Roman Catholics find a home in our parishes and find that Eastern spirituality answers needs in them that nowhere else can - let us welcome them with open arms, I say!

Even the Irish . . . (As long as they know their place and don't try to be wiser about our tradition than we are )

Alex

How about some active evangelization out there? How often do we actively engage our faithful protestant friends in a discussion re: the ancient faith. Another really good outreach are the various books with personal conversion stories. Some of these have been directed at anglican audiences. Others have a broader audience, and still others are about priests who came out of protestant clergy. But overall, they are not in great supply in Christian bookstores where they might catch the eye of someone who would be open to learning more. Maybe we should all buy a few copies and pass them around during this lenten season!

As I understand it, the purpose of evangelizing is to bring people to Christ.

RC's are already Christians. Therefore, we don't need to be evangelized.

Are you perhaps working with a different definition of "evangelize"?

Dear Dolly:

Thanks for re-stating the obvious. Some sectors really don't get it!

In a larger context, you see RCs in the jungles of Indonesia and Borneo, on the Mongolian steppes, and in the hinterlands of Africa bringing the Gospel to the non-believers and the unchurched.

In the U.S., the Catholic Church (at least the Latin counterpart) has successful missions in all of the Native American enclaves.

Currently, there are approximately 90,000 converts from Protestantism annually and new baptisms (newborn and adult) account for an additional 1 million or so annually.

We Latins consciously do not "convert" Eastern Catholics to "our" fold.

AmdG

Dear Orthodox Student,

Yes, technically RC's are already Catholics!

There are Roman Catholics, however, that would be lost to Catholicism were it not for the Eastern Catholic Churches, however.

It's not necesarily a question of "conversion" as it is a question of finding a parish/spiritual home where one is "at home."

There are Orthodox Christians who leave the Antiochian Church, for example, for a "more traditional" Orthodox jurisdiction - would you not agree?

I know OCA priests, even some converts, who have told me they positively DESPISE certain Orthodox jurisdictions. As one told me of the Antiochian Church, "There, but for the Grace of God . . ."

And I don't think that Western Christians who come to Eastern Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy are necessarily overly concerned with doctrine - but with the entire "package" of doctrine cum spirituality that the Christian East offers.

Perhaps the Filioque issue is one of extreme importance to some converts - some converts find a lot of things to be of extreme importance .

And there are some converts who are just, well, extreme . . .

But I've known Methodists, Pentecostals, Latins and others who have become Orthodox or EC, not because they necessarily felt there was a pressing doctrinal need for them to join the "True Faith," but because the unique spirituality of the East is what attracted them.

I will be willing to wager that there are Methodist converts to Orthodoxy who were led down the path to Orthodoxy on the basis of certain elements of Methodism that twigged their initial interest. The same with Pentecostals and others . . .

We have RC's in our EC Church who avoid the doctrinal issues altogether, but who are attracted to Eastern Spirituality.

A number of these do go on to be Orthodox. But they do so largely because they find in Orthodoxy what Fr. Lev Gillet said, "Not another Light, but a purer Light."

Have a great Fast!

Alex

Dear Amado,

We Eastern Christians are in the debt of RC missionaries!

You bring so many to Roman Catholicism!

That is an important stepping stone to the fullness of the Holy Faith and Tradition of the Christian East!

(Thanks to the Administrator for making it clear that this is NOT a Catholic site).

So you guys in the jungles of Indonesia et al. just keep up the good work, y'hear?

Alex

Dear Alex:

Yes, we Romans don't mind our hands being dirtied and our noses bloodied!

AmdG

Here in Vegas, the Eastern Churches do seem to be gaining some ground. Our Lady of Wisdom is growing steadily, and St. Gabriel's Rutheian Byzantine Catholic Church is also thriving (waves wildly to Fr. Pipta- "Hey, come back to Vegas and visit, will ya!!")

OLOW has a lot of people who are technically Latin Rite in the parish. They come to visit, then come back... also, a lot of people who come from a Byzantine heritage, but because their families had no Byzantine parish to attend, were baptized and raised Latin, so had to formally change rites. We also have converts- former Mormons, Jews (who are still Jewish, but now they're fulfilled Jews because they have received the Messiah) and Protestants.

I was baptized Latin, but I wasn't raised in any particular religion, sent to a fundaentalist Baptist school because my parents took it into their heads that I was a "bad kid" and needed to be fixed, and finally chrismated Italo-Greek Byzantine at the Easter Vigil in 2000 at the age of thirty-two.