www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Bishop Jerzy Mazur expelled from Russia

Robert K.

Given that your faith is not Orthodox, it is good to see you no longer commune in an Orthodox Church - for your own spiritual safety. Having said that, it would be even better to see you return to Her having acquired the faith.

And you would be paranoid of the West too if you suffered so many invasions and assaults as Russia has.

Heiromonk Elias, et al,

While I certainly do not completely agree with everything Russia does, I disagree significantly more with what America does.

You say Russia oppresses the freedom of her people to choose a faith? I say the West values nothing higher than all her own so-called freedoms which are in fact nothing more than a sophisticated form of slavery. Slavery to the passions.

While those in the West are so worried about their freedom to go into Russia and do as they please, caring nothing for the people themselves, their sons and daughters are being recruited by Branch Davidians or waiting for the arrival of the "Mother Ship" in California.

Truly, Americans value nothing higher than their own pluralistic, self-satisfying, indulgent, materialistic, satan-worshipping society. It should be the hope of every Orthodox Christian to pray the Russians can remain Orthodox in a world such as this.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

It seems to me that it is time for the Pope to consecrate a Russian Roman Catholic National as Bishop for the various Russian Dioceses since obviously any non-Russian National will not be allowed to return once they have left.

Your brother in Christ,
Thomas

Orthodoxy or Post-Nasal Drip has spoken again.

Oh, thank you for another dose of Russian chauvinism!

Most Catholics in present-day Russia are descended of those deported there by the fearless Josef Stalin. They were ripped away from their homes in Poland and Ukraine and sent off to work in forced labor camps.

So now, their descendants should not be allowed to worship in the church of their choice, but they should have YOUR brand of Orthodoxy shoved down their throats.

Isn't it something that the Catholic Church in Poland stood up to Communism while the Orthodox Church acquiesed to it, and looked the other way when six million Ukranians were starved to death?

You have no credibility.

Forgive me, since I do not know how to formally address you, so I will just say...

Dear Hieromonk Elias,

I'm afraid I must point out the bogosity of your position.

This expulsion was nothing more than another example of caesaropapism.

The integration of the Church into the affairs of the state as a matter of law has, IMHO, born nothing but bad fruit. A Church that cooperates with the state eventually just gets co-opted by the state.

I thought the Church represented the Heavenly Kingdom on Earth, rather than a society looking for an earthly kingdom. Our Lord Jesus rejected the earthly crowns offered to Him.

jw10631,


Could you please show me your source for this information? I always thought they were decendents of the captured prisoners from the invasions of the Nazi's, French, Polish, Lithuanians, Hungarians, and Austrians.


No, they can worship as they please, each and every day. But perhaps they should consider joining the Church.


Interesting, the majority of the poles were Orthodox until the Latins forced their religion down their throats. As far as Orthodox Church acquiesing, you obviously don't know the history of the ROCOR and have not heard how 750,000 Orthodox Serbs acquiesed to death at the hands of Latin bishops and priests in joint partnership with the Croatian Ustashi.

Dear OOD,

While I don't like people talking angrily to one another here, as is occurring now, I would just like to point out that we are not talking about the ROCOR, much persecuted by communism itself.

As for acquiescing, both Orthodox and Catholic Churches are guilty of that at one time or another in this century.

My grandfather, for example, became Russian Orthodox after a spell in a prison, as did others.

He returned to the Catholic Church when he arrived in Canada.

He and others like him shared one thing in common, not hatred for the Russian Church, but anger at the Vatican that did nothing to speak up on their behalf.

Finger-pointing is, well, pointless.

Alex

Alex,

Of course, and I am by no means taking the postion that Russia as a country is harmless and guiltless.

My effort here is to simply point out that far to often Westerners have this superiority complex. And as far as I'm concerned, they should feel the most inferior.

That's all.

If anyone doesn't like what the Russians do in THEIR country then they should move there, become citizens, and vote.

Most Poles - Orthodox?

No way. That sounds like propaganda from the KGB.

Do you really want to argue over who did worse to who? Us Poles are stubborn, Mr. Orthodoxy.

Perhaps all the Catholics in Russia should just leave - and make Mr. Orthodoxy happy.

Then the Bible Belt from the South will just swoop in and convert thousands of Russians. Alexey will be happy though. None of them would be "Catholic".

That's all. Just a simple point that Westerns are inferior. Are you making a joke OOD? If not, what is it that you believe makes us westerners so inferior?

Posted by Mr.Death:"Could you please show me your source for this information? I always thought they were decendents of the captured prisoners from the invasions of the Nazi's, French, Polish, Lithuanians, Hungarians, and Austrians."

Actually, my wife's Ukrainian Catholic babba could tell you some horror stories of what her and her family had to endure at the hands of St.Stalin.

Columcille

Dear Columcille,

Stalin could only be a saint if the devil ever inaugurates a process of canonization for his devoted servants.

Otherwise, we're really on the horns of a dilemma here . . .

Alex

Dear Friends,

May I make a suggestion here?

Perhaps we've responded to OrthodoxyorDeath enough on this?

His words may not have been the most judicious, I agree, but he is entitled, as is any Orthodox Christian, to defend Russia and even its recent actions in expelling the Latin bishop.

We sometimes go 'overboard' in the language and examples we use in defending our positions.

I know I've done that at times too .

OrthodoxyorDeath is a very spiritual person who is very loyal to his Orthodox Church.

We may not agree with him, but I've always admired his high ideals - remarkable for so young a man.

In other words, can we lay off him already?

Alex

This subject has come up in other discussion groups I belong to where there are Russian participants. Apparently, according to some of the replies, one of the main reasons for the reaction is that the Roman Catholic identity of the diocese that this particular Roman Catholic Bishop is head of is the Chinese name for the area rather than the Russian Name.
The Russians are highly insulted and interpert it as just another incident where the Roman Catholic Church is purposely initiating policies to separate another area of Rus (hows that Alex ?) from a Russian identity to cause discord and thus separate it from Russia as they have done in other areas of the land of Rus.
I pass this on with no personal comment. Just info from another source.

OrthoMan

Dear Orthoman,

That's fine!

Some of my best friends are "Russ."

God bless,

Alex

Orthodoxy or Death,
The solution is simple! Since you love and defend Russia so much. Then why not emmigrate there?
Stephanos I