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Does anyone know anything about this group? is it a spilt or a new founded church.
Bishop Alexy is the Ruling Bishop here in the diaspora looks interesting.I found them on the web web page [blago.org]
Wishing all a Blessed Holiday season.

Father

They also have a website, described as official, at English-language web page [theorthodox.org] ; however, most of the site appears to still be in the process of construction.

Many years,

Neil

Bless, Father Lev!

I understand this is in the tradition of the "True Orthodox Church" of the 1920's and that was prominent in Siberia especially.

A group of this jurisdiction came into communion with the UOC-Kyivan Patriarchate three years ago.

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing,

Alex

So called 'True Orthodoxy' in Russia is a minefield. The term leads us to think of resistance to the state Orthodoxy as represented by the Moscow Patriarchate, but is often a cover for all sorts of less than desirable organisations.

Due to the lack of education and centralisation, both within the 'True Orthodox Church' (if we can use such a term, in the light of the very fragmented collection of bodies involved) and the personality cults that local manifestations of True Orthodoxy displayed, there were many religious aberrations within 'True Orthodoxy' - eg. the Ioannitsy and the Name-Worshippers who resurrected the heresy that so damaged Mt Athos before World War I.

Also, there is a tendency for schism within True Orthodoxy, and for bishops to fall out and start their own synods. I wonder how many Archbishop's of Moscow there are at prsent!?! Sometimes bishops are ejected for moral reasons and then acquire 'True Orthodox' credentials and sensibilities.

The well-preened, slick bishops on the link mentioned, certainly do't look like the ascetic-monastic bishops of the true 'True Orthodox' of the early to mid 20th century.

There are all sorts of bodies claiming to be 'True Orthodox' within Russia at the moment. One is neo-gnostic, another fervently supremacist and anti-semitic. We should take care and look very carefully.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

In other discussion groups there has been an ongoing debate about what constitutes the true Russian Orthodox church.

Some people contend that the catacomb church (their term, not mine) is the true church and heir to Holy Orthodoxy in Russia and that the MP was a creation of Stalin, a usurper and devoid of Grace.

Now I can only relate to the apparent revival of some of the Kyivan churches (I can think of two) that were "underground" and resistant to the governments heavy hand. With the independance of Ukraine these movements emerged and attracted many sympathetic priests from the formerly established church.

My question is then, what happened to the catacomb church of Russia? I can think of three possibilities:

-A- It was a phantom and never really existed (not a likely answer, I think)

-B- Any secret priests and bishops emerged and were readily accepted into the ROC, where they function today.

-C- Some or all of this Catacomb church erupted on the scene as one or more church bodies as rivals to the MP.

Now I can see that there may be more than one answer to this but in the discussions I have witnessed so far no on has identified any religious organization that can be regarded as heir to the Catacomb church.

I can see that this might be a loaded question and I am not trying to start arguments, but does anyone have thoughts on this?

MichaEL

Not having the luxury of being able to read their Russian language site, I did peruse what little info is up on their English language site. They fervantly reject ecumenism as a heresy, that is clear.

Would like to hear some detail on the Russian language site from those more language-empowered than me. I cannot find any other on-line info on them. What are the jurisdictions of the other 2 hierarchs pictured on the Russian language site? Only the presiding hierarch is referenced on the English language site.

Many years,

Neil

Father Mark,

Please explain who or what are "name-worshippers" and the Ioannitsy.

Thank you!

David

David, the "heresy" or "philosophy" (depending on how the speaker felt on the matter) of "name-worship" had its origins in a work written by a monk in a Russian monastic community on Mount Athos early in the 20th century. It basically held that the name of God itself was worthy of and due worship. It persisted in various places for a period of about 15-20 years.

A very good discussion of it is at:

Name-Worship [romanitas.ru]

The Catacomb Church was a very real phenomenon in Soviet Russia. Though the Moscow Patriarchate never admitted its existence, Soviet criminal records abound in useful information. Some of the 'evidence' was collected and published by Pastor Richard Wurmbrand, himself a victim of communist anti-religious activity (in Romania). William Fletcher's book 'The Russian Church Underground' is a great source of information, differentiating between the hierarchical True Orthodox Church and the loosely organised True Orthodox Christians.

Many of the True Orthodox concords entered catacomb existence when the Stalinist persecution of religion grew fiercer. Many such groups were proud of their Josephite and Tikhonite lineage(named after Metropolitan Joseph of St Petersburg - a fierce opposer of the 'Soviet Patriarchate' and Patriarch Tikhon).

Perestroika and Glasnost saw the emergence of some Catacomb Christians and their alignement with the ROCA and the ROAC under Metropolitan Valentine of Suzdal and even some Carpathian communities under the Matthewite Greek Old Calendarists/Genuine Orthodox Christians. Other groups lead an open existence, others a semi-catacomb existence and other a fully covert catacomb existence. There are even catacomb Christians in the west who are still 'in the catacombs'.

As for the Ioannitsy... or is it Ioannity... they developed a messianic belief in St John of Kronstadt. The Name worshippers have been dealt with in a previous thread that is well worth finding.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

If reports are to be believed, the name worshipping heresy is still alive and well among members of the Russian Orthodox Autonomous Church, and its hierarchs refuse to stamp it out.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

Bless, Father Mark!

Yes, and we Ukies aren't the only ones to have multiple divisions in our Orthodox Churches!

Do not the Old Believers now have a Patriarch and a Metropolitan of Moscow (Bila Krinitsa) and perhaps some others?

I'm wondering why the Old Believers would not wish to be within a unified Orthodox jurisdiction?

I suppose eventually we may see such groups as the "Truest Possible Orthodox Church"

Alex

Yes, Alex, and lets not forget "Metropolitan" Yaroslaw Sereda, one of your own, who was ordained to the diaconate for the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Eparchy of Toronto some 25 years ago. He now heads his own "vagante" Kyivan Ukrainian "Orthodox" jurisdiction (what did he do with his wife and six kids, I wonder?). So many bogus Ukrainian Orthodox jurisdictions claiming a Kyivan connection! I attended the diaconal preparation program with "Russ" Sereda at the Melkite Seminary in Newton Centre, MA, before my "adjustment" to canonical Orthodoxy via the OCA.

OrthodoxEast

I lack the skill to be able to post a link, but if you key a google search for "independent orthodox" or "independent Catholic" you can find links to hundreds of little "orthodox" and "catholic" groups. There is, for example, a True Catholic church as well. It is fascinating, everything from gay friendly "Orthodox" bishops to ultra right wing sedevacantist "Catholics" . Granted, many of these sites may amount to little more than a lone nut with dubious orders and a computer, but others have congregations. One site procaimed the election, by a team of laymen, of a new Pope in- I think- Idaho. The accompanying photo showed a cabin with white smoke coming from the chimney. The caption said that unlike other papal elections, this one was witnessed only by the woodland creatures...

Dearest Alex - the All-Merciful Lord bless you.

Yes indeed, the Novozybkovtsy - Russian Old Orthodox Church - elevated their Archbishop Alexander, to 'Patriarch of Moscow and All Rus', not to be confused with Metropolitan Alimpii of Moscow and All Rus' of the Belakrinitsy.

In n the 19th cenury the Belakrinitsy themselves were divided over the matter of the monarchy and pledges of loyalty and prayers during the Russo-Turkish war. Some thought that the greetings sent in the name of the Catholic and Apostolic Christians of the Old Rite was over-stepping it and broke into a counter-faction.

Whilst most priestly Old Believers accepted St Amvrosii of Belakrinitsa as their first primate in the 19th century, not all could accept the new episcopate as canonical and continued to recruit dissident priests from the Nikonians until they secureda hierarchy in the 1920's. These are the Novozybkovtsy with their 'Patriarchate'.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

Bless, Father Mark!

Well, after ROCOR and the MP settle their differences, perhaps the newly united Russian Church could settle their differences with the Old Believers and return to pre-Nikonian traditions?

We can hope, no?

Thank you for your kind blessing,

Alex