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I've been going to the March for Life for many years and it's a great experience. But I always manage to be handed some sort of flyer or pitch that confuses me about some presumably Roman Catholic devotion or other. Now I was raised a Roman Catholic, and many of these things are head-scratchers to me.

This time, I received a flyer from a group claiming to have messages from Jesus and Mary through a woman identified as a seer. To me, that's always an eyebrow raiser. The messages appeared to me to be all of gloom and doom. One item said, if you wear the brown scapular, you won't enter Hell. I've gotta ask: Where does that come from? I could see saying, if you lead a good and prayerful life, and this is a nice devotion, then you've got a good shot at heaven... so help me to understand. Here is the quote: "all who wear the brown scapular shall never enter the fires of hell."

So I got into a conversation with a fellow Franciscan about scapulars. I know someone - Alex? - posted a whole long thread on that.

Someone else was evangelizing and telling us we needed to wear a different color scapular. My fellow Franciscan was familiar, I was not - she said it was based on an unrecognized apparition and some of the quotes were pretty odd. I just politely said, "no thank you" to the guy and that "we have our own beautiful Byzantine devotions." He didn't want to hear about 'em.

To me, the Theotokos is not a prophetess of doom, Jesus doesn't pick up the phone and chat with modern seers, and I admit it works on my nerves when people try to portray them as such. Am I totally off base? Do I need to pray on this one?

I also admit that I am highly skeptical of apparitions, even the ones that are "accepted."

As I've said here before, I see the Theotokos as a protector of her children and as an intecessor who says to Jesus in the Gospel, quite simply, "They have no wine." And He helps. Because she asks on their behalf. And when He is dying, He says - "there is your son" to her and "there is your mother" to the Apostle. All simple, all love, all beauty. Even when He is dying, He shows mercy - to us, to his friends, even to the "good thief."

Can you enlighten me? Wuzzup?

Annie,

Normally the leaflets that people hand me at the March for Life are full of stuff about how Rome is the �Whore of Babylon� and other such nonsense. I�ve never run into people distributing leaflets about Roman Catholic devotions (or pseudo-devotions).

I won�t know the details of scapulars and such things. But I do know that a logical and honest examination of their history would show that they are not magic charms that can keep you out of hell. They are more like daily reminders of the need to follow Christ at all times and to always repent of our sins. If such things serve to remind us to live the Christian Life, then they are good and useful. But they can also be a distraction if improperly used. Look at apparitions the same way. All of those that the Church has said that we may choose to acknowledge as authentic are simply calls to repent of our sins and to follow Christ.

Admin

Well two years ago at the 2002 March I was handed a Rosary which had beads that were plastic see- through tears with unborn babies inside. This rosary is conected to some supposed apparition and every Hail Mary said on this particular rosary saves an unborn child. Needless to say I passed on that devotion being quite sure the Christ Our Saviour, and His Mother hear all prayers regardless of what sacramental is used in the process of offering them. They have a website:

http://www.rosaryoftheunborn.com/order.shtml

Supposedly Mary gave the brown scapular to St. Simon Stock (I think I have that right) and it was/is part of the Carmelite habit. She supposedly promised that those who die wearing the scapular will not suffer eternal fire. The scapular has been adapted by the Carmelites into something smaller for lay use and the promises are supposed to extend to lay wearers of the scapular as well. The wool of the scapular is a bit itchy against bare skin, so some say it is penitential. In any event, it can be annoying enough to remind you of what you are wearing and why. It's a perfectly good Latin devotion and I see no harm in it, but some do carry it, and other things, to extremes . I think that for every legitimate Catholic devotion or practice, you will find someone who has perverted it. There were people in Knoxville some years ago who were going to Conyers, GA and bringing back messages from Mary to a "seer" there. The messages always sounded more like, "don't worry, be happy" than anything relating to doom. But they were trite and I didn't take them seriously. Any large event like March for Life will attract holy people, and the nuts will come out, as well. I think you can expect that.

Yes, ByzanTN is right. I was raised in a Carmelite parish. In those pre-Vatican II days they were into the "Sabbatine privelege" as it was called.

Actually, that was another vision to a Pope, that if you wore the scapular, abstained from meat on Weds.and Sats. (that included Fridays as well, in those days,) and said 3 Hail Marys the Saturday after your death Mary herself would come down to Purgatory and take you to heaven. This was approved by the Church as a whole. I don't think the Carmelites promote this devotion anymore, but I guess if you do all of those things you won't lead an evil life.

Yes, we Byzantine's have our own devotions. Everyone promotes their own devotions. Some people believe in every so-called vision of Mary that comes down the pike. If you wore every medal/scapular you would be walking around hunched-back.

I remember the visions in Conyers, GA. I also remember a couple in other places, mostly near a Trappist Monastery. Which I thought odd. Also, if you read the back ground of some of the visionaries, they made a pilgrimage to Medjiore (Sp?). Interesting. "Hey, kids lets put on our own visions. We can collect enought money to go on another pilgrimage"

Dear MikeC:

This could be an impossiblity!

At any rate, I think the Sabbatine Privilege goes:

Amado

Amen to that!

We used to attend a Byzantine parish that had about 5 Byzantine-rite families and everyone else was wanna-be Tridentines that couldn't find a Tridentine parish around, so they compromised and attended the Byzantine parish because that was the closest they could come (incense, chanting, etc.).

Anyway, they tried to foist the brown scapular on us. They really made it sound like a magic charm: "wear this and you won't go to hell." My husband refused it for himself and our family on principle: We were Byzantine and this was a Latin Rite tradition, and besides, there is no magic charm to get you to heaven. Well, you would think he had just told them he was a Satanist and didn't want to go to heaven!

Tammy

You might not want to go to Heaven if some of those Tridentines are there. They will be bitching and moaning about everything so much the place won't be heavenly anymore.

I'm so glad to learn I'm not the only person those folks make crazy! They bring out the most un-Christian feelings in me (and, yes, I have taken this to confession). Not only do they insist on kneeling on Sunday, they try to get the young girls of our parish to put panties on their heads! Okay, they're mantillas, but those little doilies sure look like lace underwear to me! They just don't get it when we tell them it's not part of our tradition.

Excuse me, I have to go stand in line for confession again.

No, I think the problem is that they don't accept any traditions as valid but their own. I'm sure that defending our right to our own tradition is not anything that needs confessing. I'm cracking up about the panties on their heads. ROFL

I can recall meeting some of the Bayside folks at the March for Life back in '85. They did not appear to be wearing any undergarments on their head, but nevertheless I too was completely turned off by their fanaticism. My encounter with them only seemed to codify my sense that I had left the Catholic Church for a good reason.

Of course, after my return to full communion one year later in Steubenville, I did find out that they represented the kooky fringe and not the mainstream Catholic view of our relationship to the Theotokos.

I wonder, Annie, if you met with devotees from the same movement? As I understand it, they have been condemned by the local ordinary...

Pace e' bene -
Gordo, sfo

You know I've been reading this thread and having not a few shudders :p

I meet these folk too - oh not the Tridentine ones [ they do have a Church here in Glasgow ] but the ones who think that all these devotional things are the only way to go - I have memories of folk at School with so many things round their neck that I used to wonder how they were not strangled. Oh I wasn't Catholic at the time - and really could not understand what these strings were for - and I still don't .

These folk are the ones who really give us all a bad name - they take devotion to their devotionals / sacramentals to a new height and really in many cases I think it goes to the ' incredible superstition' level - they boast about how many Relics they have. No wonder Catholics get a bad name at times - and when you look at some of the things they produce - well honestly - good taste seems to be something alien to them.

OK - off my soapbox now

Anhelyna

Dear Friends,

Did someone mention "scapulars?"

As for superstition, Eastern Christians take second place to NO ONE in that department, especially in Eastern Europe.

And superstitious attitudes can cover a wide range of things and behaviours - like the fellow in my parish who said that if one doesn't accompany the Easter procession as it goes outside, that one has not properly observed Pascha etc.

And it goes downhill from there!

Scapulars are associated with religious Orders and there are (were) 18 such scapulars allowed by the Church for use by laity.

One had to get invested in them by the religious of the Order, and observe some aspects of the Order's spirituality, be it Carmelite, Benedictine, Franciscan etc.

Sorry to differ on this, but Eastern Catholics have been using scapulars for quite some time, including Tertiaries of certain Orders.

In fact, Pope Pius XII approved a special Byzantine ritual for the blessing of Brown scapulars for Eastern Catholics WITH the stipulation that that blessing alone is valid for Eastern Catholics etc.

My grandfather, Fr. John (+ memory eternal!) invested me in my scapular using that (Church Slavonic) prayer.

The Brown scapular is STILL wildly popular in western Ukraine and elsewhere (of course, those poor Uniates still haven't woken up to their true Byzantine traditions, but what can one do?)

There are also Byzantine Carmelites, such as those that Archbishop Raya once had under him when he was in the Middle East.

There is also an Orthodox icon of Our Lady of the Scapular that is very popular in Horodyschenske in Western Ukraine (Poselianin, "Bogomater Shkaplyernaya").

For many Eastern Catholics, and not just the recent vintage of "Orthodox in communion with Rome" variety, the brown scapular is a cherished private devotion that, as some Russian Catholics I've spoken to have told me, meshes well with our devotion to the Mantle of Protection of the Mother of God.

And I agree. There was a time when I got rid of my scapulars as I thought this was a form of "Latinization."

But I've come to other conclusions later in life.

No one forces anyone to wear a scapular, medal or anything else.

And no one need wear everything around one's neck.

Have we forgotten the actions of some, like St John Maximovitch of San Francisco who did indeed wear the large icon of Our Lady around his neck on a strap?

Eastern Saints have also worn very heavy neck Crosses and even IRON analavs on their bodies, as did St Herman of Alaska (whose chains, heavy crosses etc are on display in Alaska).

Perhaps this gave these saints an "Orthodox stoop."

But, for them, it had great spiritual meaning.

St Alphonsus Liguori wore ALL 18 scapulars on his body - it is now miraculous and hasn't decomposed etc.

I wear only one scapular and this serves to remind me of the mantle of protection, as if Our Lady's arms envelope me and protect me.

It is a reminder for me to be in continual prayer, and to ask for the grace to serve her Son in a way that He and She would wish.

It makes me feel very close to her, as does my medal of "Our Lady Joy of all Joys" that I wear and that was touched to relics of St Seraphim.

I have other medals and I wish I COULD wear them all (sometimes I wear one on its feast day etc.).

But that's my business and it's something I like to do.

My confessor(s) don't see anything wrong with it and have blessed me to practice these devotions.

The scapular, owing to its popular, widespread use among many EC's, can be privately practiced and it is especially relevant if one follows the spirituality of the particular Order to which the scapular is attached (as Charles has said previously).

The icon of Mt Carmel that is in Naples, Italy is a beautiful Byzantine Icon that the Latin and Greek Carmelites brought with them from the Holy Land.

The reason St Simon Stock was praying to our Lady at Aylesford was because the Western religious Orders in England were about to eject the Hermits of Carmel as they felt they were an EASTERN group that had no place in a Western Church!

The way the scapular has been "reconstructed" today is very meaningful - for those who like the devotion.

It is considered within the context of "religious clothing" dying to self (and the original idea of an "askeem" or scapular in the Coptic tradition was the wearing of the hide of a dead animal to signify one's death to the world in order to live in Christ).

And it is also considered as a way in which a person may bond more closely to a religious way of life that involves the Divine Office (as true monastics practice) and other forms of monastic prayer (and the Jesus Prayer is a monastic prayer, first and foremost).

Monasticism is a lay movement, truth be told. It belongs more to "us laity" than to "them clerics."

So if the spirituality of the scapular can be about the public prayer of the Church, the meditative reading of the scriptures, the sense of being connected to the "desert" even while living in the "world," - what is wrong?

Is this not a great way to live the Life in Christ in the world, in some form of community/prayer group etc.?

Let's also remember that the EC Churches in Eastern Europe that are flowering today are doing so because of an intense prayer life among the laity.

And what does this prayer life consist of? Not only the Eastern liturgical services, Friends!

There is the forty hours devotion, the Perpetual Adoration, the Perpetual Rosary etc.

I met a married EC priest from a village in the Carpathians who has the Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration his parish (when I once asked him if he wore a scapular, he smiled and said, "Doesn't everyone?") and he said that even small children want to do their daily "Hour of Adoration" before the altar and he's published little books etc.

People love those devotions and they PRAY them. Sorry IF that offends!

Those devotions, including that "superstitious scapular" have ALWAYS been the mainstay of E European ECism. (Are "Orthodox in communion with Rome" living in a vaccuum?)

They are so today as well (yes, including the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary that were so close to, e.g. , Bl. Paul Goydich OSBM).

And do we know why the ROC is so terribly PISSED OFF that it has lost western Ukraine to the UGCC?

Fr. R. Taft confirmed that it was because a goodly proportion of priestly vocations for the ROC came from there - the effects of that piety and daily devotion that was grounded on Latin practices.

And this is why the ROC, when it was still in Western Ukraine as the dominant force, allowed the Sacred Heart, Eucharistic etc. devotions.

They were never abrogated and they are still there now in many Orthodox churches (along with the Stations of the Cross).

With apologies to the Administrator for the possible shock impact of the above

Alex

My personal spirituality is, was, and ALWAYS WILL BE a 'devotional' one! In fact, devotions are to Christ what making love is to a married couple---an EXPRESSION (literally a pressing out) of the love and feelings we have for Him! Holy scapulars, rosaries, chaplets, Holy Hours, adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, Stations of the Cross, holy water, and all the other devotions and devotionals of the Western (Latin) and Eastern Churches are simply and WONDERFULLY expressions for our LOVE for Christ, the Mother of God, and the Saints and Angels. I would even be so bold as to say---if you have no devotions, then you have no love relationship with Christ...because those devotions are simply the expression of how much you love Him and how much a part of your life He is!

Much love and Happy devotions to you all!

In His great love,
+Fr. Gregory

I converted to the Byzantine Church just over five years ago. I have a question which relates to this. Is there an authentic Eastern tradition of wearing a head covering? My instincts tell me that there must have been but I simply don't know.

Dan L