www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West What councils are binding upon Byzantines!

StuartK,

My Sicilian/Italian is sketchy, but what do you mean when you say, "Sadly, a lot of Latin nonnas do not, so it will take a while before things go back to the way they once were and should still be." Nonna is Italian for grandmother, what about Latin grandmothers? And the plural would be "nonne" not "nonnas" if you are actually talking about grandmothers. I'm confused!

Once again, and with all due respect to Catholics who have well-founded desires for certain changes within Catholicism, we Orthodox do not see your practice as a cause of disunity. We do not deny its validity.

Axios

See I like happy positive people! That's why I left beliefnet, the boards were, ironically, one of the most unChristian places I've been!

ChristTeen287

I'm with Rum on this one....what is with the Roman rite dragging their feet on returning to those historical roots and practices which are now found only in Orthodoxy?

Brother Ed

I could go for a hot toddy myself.

Axios

Altar Boy,

In the Eastern Catholic churches too (obviously, you being an Eastern Catholic) but I'm sure you meant that Eastern Catholicism is part of orthodoxy, which is another obvious thing.

plus I'm still wonderin' about nonnas...

ChristTeen 287,
I wish I was positive as you and Axios but the truth remains in what I said. I see no hope for unity for this current generation and the generation to come. All I see is the promotion of relativism.

You said: "but it would also be better for the cause of unity if some would accept that witholding Our Lord from infants is valid, even if not in line with patristic Tradition."

I say: Your statement is a cause for disunity. May I ask who you are to withhold Christ from the infants? Did you not read what was written in Holy Scriptures (Matthew 19:14)? I will quote it for you
"Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven."

Patristic Tradition is the soul of the Church yet you speak of things you know not. I encourage you pray, read, and research this topic. It may lead you to greater spiritual understanding and a return to the ancient practices of the early Church.

The Orthodox Church believes in "equal opportunity" in administering its Holy Mysteries to infants. It does not discriminate based on age, gender, race, or intelligence.

Rum,

Well I'm not down on you for being overly optimistic; actually the majority of the time I'm a realist too ...ooohhh here comes that Latin scholasticism, and I'm not even Latin. lol.

Rum,

Witholding Our Lord from infants who, if baptized, are still in a state of grace, seems...I hate to use such a word on an Eastern forum...logical. But I do agree with you when you state that reunion will not come in this generation or the next. That doesn't mean we shouldn't shoot for the stars, though.

ChristTeen287

Where is the logic in it? That because you are in a state of grace you don't need Jesus? That seems to reduce the sacraments to being a means of "staying clean" rather than a means of "participating in the divine life".

Maybe that's the difference between the West and the East; the West has always been sorta legalistic: hence, having a clean slate is valued, but the East is more, for lack of a better word, "mystical", and so the ideal is participating in the life of God through the sacraments.

Pope Paul VI once stated that the dialogue between the Roman Church and Eastern Orthodoxy "should take up from the point at which it was broken" and "without being predetermined by whatever one or the other Church has undertaken or defined in the absence of the other."

What are your comments on this late Pope's words?

Dear Joe,

Makes sense to me! Sounds like a pretty sound theological opinion.

Steve

"Why, exactly, is the Western practice of not permitting infants to receive communion wrong? The Augustinian notions make sense to me."

I think infant communion is on the agenda for the Latins already. A number of Latin dioceses have already begun to change their timetable when to administer Confirmation. They recognize the Eastern practice as being the more ancient in form and more theologically correct and makes sense. Our son's religion instructors at his parochial school have admitted this and realize that an ironing out of their current initiation rites have to go back to making more theologically correct sense.

Our son has received communion at their parochial school Masses since kindergarten and giving such witness has proven to be of help for those not familiar with infant communion or pre-2nd-grade communion. They also respected and learned a lot why he couldn't receive communion during Lent - since he communicates at Pre-Sanctified on Wednesdays and Fridays.

In kindergarten, the teacher went up to communion with our son and was always amazed at how he communicated with such reverance. His classmates were so jealous because they couldn't understand why he was allowed to receive but not them. For one of his classes in 1st grade he gave a talk on his church and practice of giving communion to children and why he has received since he was three-weeks old. He also described how he also serves at the altar for Divine Liturgy and great vespers for feastdays. The kids thought it was all so cool. His religion instructor was enlightened and thought well of it all.

Then, of course, the questions began: "Why, teacher, can't WE receive communion like Adam?" Such witnessing and questions makes good for religion instruction.

Joe Thur

[ 09-15-2002: Message edited by: Joe T ]

Our son has received communion at their parochial school Masses since kindergarten

A LATIN parochial school, I assume.

HOW did you pull that one off?

In kindergarten, the teacher went up to communion with our son and was always amazed at how he communicated with such reverance.

Yeah, I see the same thing in our parish. Amazing how the wee ones often put us to shame in their propriety with the Holy Mysteries.

Cordially in Christ,

Brother Ed

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Altar Boy:
[QB]Our son has received communion at their parochial school Masses since kindergarten

A LATIN parochial school, I assume.

HOW did you pull that one off?

Altar Boy,

Yes, a LATIN school. Our loco publik skuule iz beeloe standurds so wee had two sendd hymn to a pearokeeol wone. I gwadyouated frum thare!

Nothing to pull off with him communicating at a Latin school Mass. The Cleveland Latin Diocese has a policy that expects its school officials to respect and minister to attending Byzantine Catholics. We are of minority status ya know!

Due to our son's excellent ECF upbringing at our parish, and the fact that we practice what we preach, Adam has always scored high in his religion classes ... and then some. His buddies and him share notes about serving at the altar.

Joe Thur