www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Concelebrated Crowning

Dear All:

I am pleased to report that I attended a somewhat "ecumenical" Crowning ceremony this past weekend. The groom was Ukrainian Greek-Catholic and the bride was Ukrainian Orthodox.

Here's the kicker: the Crowning ceremony was con-celebrated by the pastors of BOTH of the young couple's respective parishes.

While our clergy celebrate non-communal services together on many occasions, this was the first time I personally witnessed a SACRAMENT being jointly administered. Truly a happy day all around.

Has anyone else witnessed anything similar?

Yours,

kl

KL,
We had the same thing here in California last year and then their baby recieved the three Mysteries of Christian Initation on Saturday. We are very ecummenical on the West Coast. :-)

-uc

Dear kl, was that at V&O?

I recall that weddings with concelebration between the UGCC and UOC have happened before in the past.

Well bu what UOC is that? Is it a canonical Church? or is it an uncanonical liberal church like the Sobornopravna?

The one I went to was with UOC-USA.

Dear Friends,

Yes, Ukrainians are Ukrainians first, sharing the same Eastern traditions etc.

After that, we return to our sad divisions, imposed on us by foreigners . . .

Alex

It is canonically and ecclesiologically incorrect to concelebrate the sacraments (for Eastern Orthodox clergy). However, after such sacraments have been performed by non-Orthodox clergy in RC, BC, and even some Protestant contexts, the Orthodox do recognize their validity. Those clergy that do such things could be reprimanded or deposed by their bishops.

The prohibition on concelebration is probably also wise in that it reemphasizes that we are not in communion at this time. Concelebration could lead one to believe that we may commune at each other's chalices.

Many people don't like these restrictions, but since when did Christ's Church have to do with what we like? Like eating our vegetables, it's about what is good for us.

In Christ,
Andrew

"Those clergy that do such things could be reprimanded or deposed by their bishops."

I'm referring to those who concelebrate, not those who recognize levels of validity in sacraments performed outside of the bounds of the Church.

Dear Reader Andrew,

That kind of concelebration in the Ukrainian Community has been going on for some time.

The Ukrainian Orthodox are, alas, desensitized to anathemas etc. since so many have been hurled at them by the Russian Orthodox - including that disgusting Orthodox service that renews the anathemas against our Hetman, Ivan Mazeppa.

I have a copy of that blasphemy in Church Slavonic - those Orthodox hierarchs who approved it should be anathematized themselves!

Alex

Please do explain why you believe that schism is good for us?

Fr. Romanides, reacting to the stipulations in the Balamand agreement, suggested that:
I take his point.

Dear Diak et al:

As it appears there is one prone to tattle on this board, I think that it's best that I leave out the location and the participants for now.

Suffice it to say that it would be next to impossible for the respective bishops not to have known what was happening.

As Alex says - we're Ukrainians first and everything else second - and he's right.

But even leaving the Ukie thing aside -- well, never mind. Discretion is the better part of valor.

Yours,

kl

Dear KL,

St Basil Lypkivsky mentions one feast that was always shared by Ukie Catholics and Orthodox alone - the feast of the Sorrowful Mother or "Pieta" as it is known in the West.

It is celebrated by the Ukie Orthodox on the "Tenth Saturday" after Easter, I believe.

Lypkivsky makes mention of how our Orthodox people would borrow "Uniate" liturgical texts for its celebration and then put them back "under lock and key" for the next year!

Alex

Dear Alex:

V&O's and St. Vlad's Orthodox Cathederal in Chicago have a traditional "day of brotherhood" on the feast of the Nativity of the Theotokos.

No need to take out or put in anything as the Vespers are identical.

Yours,

kl

Dear KL,

I once attended such a day here and dropped the names of Ukie Orthodox saints to some priests.

I especially esteem one Ukie Orthodox priest, Fr. Bublyk, now retired.

He gave my dying father the Mystery of Anointing and then came to his funeral.

When we saw him, my brother and I were all over him, kissing his hands and hugging him.

Our bishop and the seven priests who were there must have wondered if we were now going to "go over to Orthodoxy?"

Alex

Dear djs,

I haven't read Romanides' response to Balamand, but my guess at having read his other works and recognizing him as a fellow conservative is that he is making the same point that I am making: Schism is bad, but perhaps necessary. It cannot be healed only through good intentions. We have to have the correct theology, ecclesiology, and soteriology in order to rejoin at the chalice in good faith.

Could you post a link to his response, a larger quote, or review it yourself?

In the Risen Lord!
Andrew