www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Why are some converts so angry?

I think a lot of it has to do with the natural human "need" to justify one's actions. It's not restricted to the religious realm, as anyone knows who has ever listened to someone talking about why they couldn't or wouldn't breastfeed.


Sharon


Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

Remie,

It seems your friend, who was always anti-Christian, just brought his hatred for Christianity into his interpretation of Islam, just like so much bad baggage. What a waste of emotional energy.

If conversion to Islam has saved him from the negative influences of the hard-rock culture, you would think that he would be too thankful for the grace of God to waste his emotions on his ill-feeling for Christianity.

Mehmed Sokolovic, a Serbian convert to Islam and a high official--vizier--within the Ottoman court, spent his life helping his former Orthodox confreres and was responsible for the creation of the Patriarchate of Pec, while remaining ideologically committed to his chosen faith--Islam.

Yusuf Islam (a/k/a Cat Stevens), son of a Greek Cypriot father and Jewish mother, certainly hasn't spent his life as a Muslim casting aspersions on Christianity--or any other religion--but has spent his time living a positive life, dedicated to Islam. His work in helping to rebuild war-ravaged Bosnia is legendary, as is his dedication to European Islam.

Muhammed Ali (a/k/a Cassius Clay), since his adoption of a more orthodox practice of Islam--and a breaking of his ties with the Nation of Islam--has lived a life of public service that is internationally respected. He hasn't wasted his life condemning other religions.

Most of the Christian converts to Islam--that I know personally--are not anti-Christian. They have just moved on with their lives.

Salaam,

Abdur

Dear Brendan (the Theologian),

You don't have time on your hands for zeal?

That is almost as if you are saying that, as a convert yourself, such zeal is expected of you, where it might not be of cradles.

Be that as it may, yes, my friend was told not to join the OCA etc. etc. and that figured highly in his decision to do just that.

(I hope you would be happy to know I supported him in that decision and even suggested that he contact you at some point - don't know if he did or not - but that's none of my business).

Most of my contacts with Orthodox have been with converts. I have Orthodox cradles in my family, but there is nothing about them to suggest they're especially religious!

It was through my convert-contacts that I developed a view of Orthodoxy that reflected their strong faith experience and life practice.

They mesmerized me with their wearing of large 3 bar Crosses on a cord on top of their clothing and their large prayer ropes dangling from their wrists etc. in addition to their frequent Crossing of themselves and many other things in public. They didn't care who was looking on, they just went ahead and prayed.

There is just something to their way of life, explain it away if anyone must, that is very demonstrative and yet so full of the power of witness to Christ.

I must say that they inspired me to do things like set up little shrines in places I inhabit, such as at work.

Over time, I've come to realize that our cleaning staff not only pray before the little shrine on my desk, hidden from public view unless you are standing behind my desk. They also look after it, they take the icons and clean them of dust etc.

I'm always moved when I see the icons slightly rearranged when I come in to work on a Monday morning.

The outward symbols and Icons and Crosses are very important. They must always be linked with internal spirituality, to be sure.

But they can inspire and bring blessings into our lives and I am grateful to God's converts for teaching me that.

God bless you, Brendan!

Alex

rose

[ 05-24-2002: Message edited by: Rose ]

Tim hit the note with the word PRIDE... I think all to often people with this anger have low self esteem and are seeking recognition for their accomplishments. These are not the accomplishments that Jesus did through them, but of their own agenda. They may even start off with something they are suppose to do for Jesus, but get side tracked onto their own agenda.

Then like myself as a convert. I saw a lot of what I felt was injustice to others, arrogance, and selfish agendas. It wasn't unusual to see half the church get mad at the other, and move across the street and start another church. Talk about confusing for a kid. Then there was sexual abuse by the protestant clergy to their children and others. Don't hear anything about that in the news do you. Well it is a BIG problem. I was one and I know plenty of other children who went through it. I recently read an article from a paper in Michigan I think, where these doctors had treated over 2,000 cases of sexual abuse by protestant clergy. It was interesting.

Anyway I have repented of my anger and forgiven my agressor and have prayed with many to do the same. I pray they find as much peace and joy, humility,forgiveness, and love where ever they are as I have found in the Byzantine Church.


Moose,

You have propably gotten this forever, but I can't take it any more I gotta ask

Did Rockie and Bullwinkle really live in Frostbite Falls? Of course knowing me I propably have the wrong town.

rose

What is it with Catholics and the need to convert everyone else. The Catholic Church is America is crumbling (see Milwaukee) but the Pope, instead of tending to this business, is in Bulgaria trying to convert Orthodox. Why? Is this the best use of his time? Do we offend Rome that much? If the Pope really wants unity, then come to the east with some other message then submit to my rule.

Yeah, and just last week my pastor tried to sell me some indulgences.

But seriously, can you tell me why the Infallible Catholic Dogma of Limbo(tm) is sending me to hell?

Dear JP,

And when did His Holiness ever say he was in Bulgaria to convert the Orthodox?

He did thank the Orthodox for ministering to Catholics during hard communist times.

Is it just his presence that overwhelms some Orthodox and makes them fall, slain in the Spirit?

I haven't seen any as yet, but who knows?

Orthodox Christians in other parts of the world, such as in Bulgaria, don't have hang-ups of the big Boogey-man from Rome, the Pope.

Russians sometimes do, although not all. And then there are those converts who are always going on about something . . .

Have a nice day!

Alex

Dear Friends,

Can someone please tell me how Limbo became "infallible?"

It is no longer an item in the Latin Catholic theological spectrum.

Only a die-hard convert with an anti-Catholic agenda would say otherwise.

Am I wrong?

Alex

No, you're right, friend Alex. Limbo was never a defined dogma. It popped up in catechisms as a POSSIBLE explanation for what happens to infants and other innocent children who die before baptism. It has never been infallibly declared as dogma and I will eat my sock if someone shows me otherwise.

In Christ,
mikey.

Dear Mikey,

As one fellow once wrote, "Limbo" is what a Catholic is in whenever he would like a quick response to a request from his bishop . . .

A "FreeMason" to a Catholic is someone who will fix the Church steps for free.

And the "Rosary" is a form of prayer that sometimes may feel goes on for five decades . . .

Alex

Limbo?

jporthodox's understanding of Catholicism seems to confirm he's (she's?) been in "limbo" for a while.


AmdG

Oh Alex,
I guess my sense of humor is overly obtuse. (Not as "punny" as yours, obviously...)

According to many Orthodox on the net (one particular listserv comes to mind), all of us "Roman Catholics" are REQUIRED to believe in Limbo as dogma. Which is one of the points they harp on as to why "Rome" is essentially just another religious organization.

And if they can state that with authority, what's to stop them, as jporthodox does, from saying that the Pope makes all these trips for the purpose of "converting Orthodox"?
Whew. Can I be obtuse again now, please?

Dear Lemko,

Well, Catholics might be under the impression that the "toll-houses" are required for Orthodox to believe in.

And they would be equally wrong.

Normally, this kind of thing about Limbo or what have you comes from a convert who had a bad grasp of Catholicism to begin with.

Hopefully, their Orthodox spiritual fathers will set them right about Orthodoxy .

One Orthodox convert friend was proud of the fact that Orthodoxy didn't have the doctrine of Purgatory. (I don't want to get into that whole issue, but am just illustrating here.)

An RC acquaintance said, "So you mean that if you aren't totally pure, which you need to be to get into Heaven, you will go to straight to Hell, since there's no Purgatory?"

Kind of sent shivers up my spine as well . . .

Alex

I haven't heard about the limbo until today, it's a little bit strange. I think that's more a medioeval legend than a religious dogma.
I thought that infants who die without baptism went to the earth paradise.

I also know that when Christ descended to the Hades, he saved the souls of those who died without knowing him (I supose this also includes those who died withou the baptism), remember that the Hades has no past or present.