www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Intro & Thanks! & A Request /Moving From GOA To Byzantine Rite

A warm welcome to you! Welcome first and foremost to the Greek-Catholic Church, where we are happy to have you aboard (even though you may not always be able to tell that we're happy!). That someone finds his way to us is a great joy. We hope that you can manage to make our joys and sorrows your joys and your sorrows.

Welcome also to the Forum, where we often look as though we all hate each other, but in reality we enjoy one another's company and where you have a good contribution to make.

Christ is amongst us!

Incognitus

Garrett- The problem is that RCIA is just that: the rite of Christian initiation; ie, of baptism and confirmation [chrismation]. Thus it is properly required of those who have not received those sacraments.
In the US it is routinely required of anyone, baptized or not, confirmed or not, who is seeking admission to the Catholic Church.
From what I have gathered discussing the matter with priests, this is more a matter of limited resources and personnel than ill will, but still it is less than ideal, and less than theologically correct.
-Daniel

Dearest Friends, Thank you for the warm responses which came unexpectedly. I will try to reply to the points made, all of which were helpful, and you can move on to more serious things. My problems should not take up so much time! If someone wants to check in with me, in-group our privately, to see how its going--that will be great! I did not mean to provoke a controversy. I can always be reached at either rjrossi@navicom.com or rossib@opeuseiu.org.

I do not want to leave the impression that my problems form around distance from a church. I will travel 60 miles if I have to, but I cannot do that every week or participate fully in the life of a church over such distance. Perhaps the Latin church here would be my "backup" (for lack of a better term)--a great priest with incredible homilies, a good community, the opportunity to praise God--but it isn't home. And the problem then becomes functioning in that environment without hurting anyone or despairing and living an almost schizophrenic spiritual life. I don't know how to do this.

One poster thought that my problem is with Orthodoxy. Perhaps it is. I only left the Carpatho-Russian church of my younger days because I had to move west for work; even the worst times in that church were good. That church was in West Virginia, so Charitina and I have something in common.

I want to spare you an account of my feelings about Orthodoxy. Let it be sufficient to say that I feel left behind by the American Orthodox churches. Going to the OCA would not help me or them, as one poster sugested. It took several pilgrimages for me--to Serbia and Palestine and to holy places here in the USA--to see what is lacking in myself and in my church experience. It also took hearing a few virulently anti-Catholic diatribes by Orthodox priests and faithful to push me forward. I understand and love hearing someone say they are "Pro-Orthodox and Pro-Catholic." For me, it isn't a contest, but something given by the Holy Spirit. Contests and arguing are barriers to me.

The Orthodox and Greek Catholic churches of my childhood in Pennsylvania and New York left me with nothing but good memories. But over 50 years many things have changed and I have had to move around.

The poster who said that RCIA is good for me is so right, because it has been more than 30 years since I paid close attention to the Latin Church. Also, this RCIA experience has allowed me to meet people I would not otherwise know and has taught me some needed skills.

I do feel occasionally insulted in RCIA; maybe this is also good for me. I often feel sadness; RCIA doesn't challenge us and is too easy and bland. Difficulties are sometimes settled by a seminarian saying that something is right or wrong because it is in the Catechism. Reflections are kept on the level one might find in many Protestant churches. But the Eastern Liturgy MOVES us; our "naivete" about the saints and the teachings received from our Church Mothers and Fathers gives us an edge and forces us to think creatively--and after that RCIA seems lacking. RCIA tends to "dumb down" theology and concepts like Theosis aren't even mentioned.

Canonical or not--I am vaguely aware of what the law says--a priest told me to do this. And even when a priest's advice has been wrong, it has always worked to my eventual benefit. Besides that, it is hypocritical for me to go looking for the hands-on practical love of the Church and only take from it what I want or what benefits me most immediately. I'm not going to contest this placement in RCIA. I'll continue to go and keep biting my tounge.

One poster suggested that I go to St. Irene's in Portland. That was where I have been going. That poor elderly priest is not well, has two churches to cover over a very long distance and the community seems rather divided. The priest shouldn't be expected to do more for me than he already has. The leading community member who discouraged me from joining did so by saying that I must "anathemitize" the GOA and be "anathemized" by them before I can join his church. He topped it off with an anti-Italian comment or two. More barriers. Regardless of whether or not this is correct, I'm not going to force my way into a church, make anyone uncomfortable or create room for future dissension.

I'm not sure about the equivalency of Rites that one of the posters mentions. I would not say that the GOA or Carpatho-Russians (also part of the GOA)are ethnically or jurisdictionally equivalent to Greek Catholics--at least not in front of some Carpatho-Russians or Rusyns I know! We live in very mixed communities.

In response to one post, I want to say that it is my goal to evangalize and do Eastern Catholic cathetical work here. I purchased the materials knowing that rhere are other Eastern Christians in the area. We don't know one another and people have drifted to the Episcopal and Latin Rite churches. (I also live near the center of a huge Old Believer community, but that is another subject..) I wrote to several Eastern Rite church leaders to ask for direction in this effort but I did not get any responses. I will try again.

Again, THANKS! to everyone for your prayers and kindness. May I make one more request? In two weeks I have a meeting scheduled with a Ukrainian priest. I'm afraid to hope for too much after these recent problems, but perhaps someone here can offer me some pointers. I'm not the crank or dissenter that I may sound like. I love our Eastern spirituality and I'm looking for a church home which will help me grow in the faith I have given most of my life to. How can I best express this to a priest?

My apologies for another long post!

Faithfully,

bob

Bob,

Being a newbie to the ways of Eastern Catholicism, I do not have much advice to offer.

However, I just want to offer you my prayers and support. I pray that your meeting with the Ukrainian priest goes well, and I pray that God willing, your evangelization/catechatical desires come to fruition.

I am sorry for the animosity you experienced at the St. Irene's.

Would it help Bob to just go along to your nearest Byzantine Catholic Church and not do anything formal just yet, until your thoughts sort themselves out You are very welcome in any of our churches anywhere.

When I lived in Melbourne (Australia) I used to go to the Russian Catholic Centre and a number of the congregation who attended everything were Orthodox and many Orthodox would turn up as various feast would occur (there are 3 or 4 different Russian Orthodox juristictions in the city). There was an a certain degree of familiarity and ease, no one was refused anything be it confession or communion and the number of times the sub deacon was Orthodox I can't recall. The purists might be horrified but to us it was not an issue and if they did not like it they could go elsewhere.

Give it time and when/if you feel the need to formalise things then consult with the Parish Priest. Dont rush into anything. Take it easy and let your thoughts and feelings settle first. A wise monk once advised to never make decisions while your emotions are all over the place, as you will probably make a bad decision.

Thanks to Pavel and MadeforCommunion for your kind thoughts! Really, the kindness in this group is remarkable. And Pavel's example of hands-on practical theology is one thing I love about the Eastern churches.

Pavel, I'm the kind of person who needs the church and structure and, anyway, I don't think I'm rushing into something. I can't imagine living outside of the Church, terrible sinner that I am. Without the tie I'm lost; I've known this for more than 20 years. But your kind words do give me pause to reflect.

I am blessed to have some choices. What I need is help in clarifying matters, hearinmg from others if I'm off base or not and figuring out how to work into one of the two nearby Eastern churches. (HELP!) I even feel blessed to have these problems, but they are problems none the less. And I don't have others around me to talk to about this.

And, you know, I think that my experience may be somewhat typical of what others go through and maybe matters will change if we discuss them. If I were a weaker person, I might have given up or been drawn uncritically into RCIA or returned to what has become a very sectarian and prejudiced Orthodoxy and never felt the warmth of the Eastern and Latin churches. I have been struggling intensively with this for 3 years, since a trip to Palestine, so it feels like the Holy Spirit has been guiding the journey and that I have to learn how to listen and obey. Many of the posts I'm reading here have reassured me that I'm on the right path, but I can't work this out outside of the Church.

Faithfully,

bob

I was Baptized but not confirmed, and I had to go through RCIA. In my case, althought I was already familiar with a lot of the material, and I was in a small class, I enjoyed RCIA. I got to know some people from mjy parish, and that was great.

But there was a lot we didn't go over in RCIA, sometimes I would ask questions that I could tell were kind of beyond the normal scope of the program. Our pastor and the DRE were great -- and didn't discourage me at all.

I'd still like to go to a religious education program for the Byzantine Rite, if there were such a thing available to me.

A marvelous thing happened last night.

When I went to RCIA, prepared for the Latin ritual I had qualms about, the priest told me that he had awoken at 4:00 am with a strong feeling that I should not have to go through the Profession of Faith. We instead did a really nice welcoming ritual so now I'm recognized as an official member of that community. After that, the Sister directing the RCIA asked me to give an impromptu explanation of the icon of St. John the Baptist and I think that I did a credible job. The Priest and the Sister had both read a CNEWA pamphlet on the Eastern Churches. It is too little to say that I was flying for all of last night and for most of today. I think that I have God and many people to thank for this--and especially people in this forum. Your prayers helped!

The next concrete step is to meet with a Ukrainian priest here next week. I can use your prayers and pointers!

I also received two clarifying e-mails from the leading member of the Byzantine Church in Portland who I mentioned in my previous posts. After reading his side of it all, I have to apologize to him and to all of you if I was a source of anxiety, dissent, misunderstanding or quibbling. Reasonable people can disagree, and in my sinful state I also misunderstood what was being said. May God lift all of our blinders and remove from us all barriers to brotherly love!

Faithfully,

bob

Dear Bob,

One of my friends left a reformed orthodox (protestant doctrine, eastern liturgy) church to become Catholic after 6 years of regularly worshipping at the Catholic Church along with studying theology. He didn't officially become Catholic until about 4 years ago, but even with all that academic knowledge he had to go to RCIA (there was no Eastern church nearby). Anyhow, although my friend knew everything that was taught there - it turned out to be a valuable lesson for the others. He became a teaching and learning tool for the 20-or-so other Catechumenates.

You are a blessing for those others, especially to open them up to the hidden riches of the Catholic east. These others may share their knowledge with others, and on and on. The light of the east is shared with a host of others through your witness...

Amen.

Dear Bob,

Welcome!

When I read some comments by Orthodox posters here, I sometimes want to go over to the Latin Church myself . . .

Alex

Bob,
Life can be crazy. I attended the UGCC for a long time and it took a while. I would still go to the Latin Church once in a while. I even had a three high mass stint in a rebellion against someone (once you get over the gregorian chant.. and the fact that when you were a kid serving at a convent 3-5 times a week with the nuns saying how they missed the latin and gregorian chant you tend to want to see it).
I was being pulled by certain people and being told that I shouldn't abandon the Latin church..
Then those people stopped pressuring me. This was after I attended the UGCC for quite a while too that they made me feel torn.
Now I am on my own path. I have learned to not let certain people try to pull me in their direction. Although I am sure that they will try again when they find out my path.. but I will have to stand my ground and take it.
So, I am glad that you are following your path.
And my roundabout point is that I am glad you shared with us so I would share with you that I myself have been in similiar shoes as you.