www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Intro & Thanks! & A Request /Moving From GOA To Byzantine Rite

First, I'm thanking God for finding this forum. I can see that I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as people here and that I have a great deal to learn. And it seems that there are at least a few discussions I should avoid...

I live in Oregon and I'm interested especially in meeting people in our Pacific Northwest region. I work as a union organizer. One of the books which helped me move to where I am today was "Out Of This Furnace" by Thomas Bell; I might well be a character in that book.

I have been Carpatho-Russian and Greek Orthodox for a very, very long time. A number of things have happened in recent years which have served to move me towards the Byzantine and Latin Rite Catholic Churches. It would be wrong for me to bore you with details; it should be enough to say that I feel the Greek Church left me. And I have fallen in love with what I have (re)discovered on this journey!

But there are lots of problems and I need to dialogue with someone about what is becoming a difficult transition. The wonderful Latin Rite church I found doesn't have a clue about the Eastern or Orthodox theologies and I was placed in RCIA. In RCIA I end up biting my tounge a great deal. Thankfully, they're not making me go through the entire process, but I do have to do a Profession of Faith and try to fit in somewhat before I can receive Confession and Communion. They make me feel welcome, they're a good community, but my heart weeps sometimes for our Eastern Liturgy and theology.

A biritual (Byzantine/Latin) priest 45 miles away showed compassion and heard my Confession and gave me Communion. But this priest is rather busy, not in great health and can't help me over the bumps in the road. And driving 45 miles every Sunday knocks me out after working 50-65 hours every week. When I expressed an interest in joining this church, I was strongly discouraged by a leading parishoner. He's as anti-Orthodox as many Orthodox are anti-Catholic. I don't want to have this fight. The theology and the Liturgy are there, but little community and little acceptance.

I have an appointment with a Ukrainian Catholic (Eastern Rite) priest in a two weeks. That church is about 60 miles away. I'm afraid to hope for too much and I'm getting tired of explaining my situation.

I'm still in love with the churches. I'm not complaining; I can see that I have much to be thankful for. I especially appreciate the no-nonsense, hands-on love the Latin and Byzantine Rite priests have shown me. But how hard can it be to move from being Greek Orthodox to being Byzantine and/or Latin Catholic?

I have set for myself a rather rigorous structure for prayer, fasting, study and church support and involvement. Sometimes I make it and sometimes I don't.

I need your prayers and your advice. It may easier for everyone if you reach me off-forum at either rjrossi@navicom.com or rossib@opeuseiu.org; I don't want to detract from other discussions.

I apologize for the long post!

bob

Dear Bob,

I feel for your predicament. If only it were easier to find one's spiritual niche and have one's preferred church be right on one's doorstep! (Welcome to the Eastern Rite, as someone once told me!) As a fellow member of this forum, I can only promise you my prayers and deepfelt empathy, as many of us here struggle with the desire for living authentic Eastern spirituality in the desert of geographical distance from Byzantine churches. As a canonical crossover from Latin to Byzantine Rite, my family primarily worships at our local Latin Rite parish, and for the big feasts we try to make the trek to our Byzantine church (monastery). It is a challenge. Yet I try to follow the Eastern liturgical calendar in spirit, and try to keep on hand Byzantine prayerbooks and spiritual reading for supplemental growth. Keep up the prayers and spiritual regime, and keep praying to find your way in today's complicated world. Peace - and remember the message of this holy season - God is with us!

Charitina

Welcome,

I sense both the thrill and the frustration of your journey. Pray that God will use the Evangelization efforts begun at Whiting, Indiana. Who knows? We may be meeting someday.

www.byzantineevangelization.com [byzantineevangelization.com]

CDL

I am sure that you have done this but have you tried other Orthodox jurisidictions like the OCA??

Bob,

First off the Latin parish has no right to deny Communion to a praticing Orthodox Christian let alone put them in RCIA. Second even if you join the Catholic CHurch you retain your ritual tradition so you would become a Greek Catholic even if you join through a Latin parish, so that parishioner has no business discouraging you from attending a parish of your native tradition. I would call the chancery of the Latin diocese, expalin your situation and have the bishop inform the pastor of correct canonical procedure. I that doesn't work I would make the sacrifice and drive to the Byzantine parish.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Bob,

How close are you to this church or is this the church in which you experienced some bias?

St. Irene the Virgin and Great-Martyr

4630 N Maryland Ave Portland
Administrator: Rev Frank Knusel

Phone: 503-281-6744

E-Mail: FJKnusel@earthlink.net

Mr. Rossi,

Good luck and God be with you. It can be *hard* in America, with its vast distances, to find an Eastern Catholic parish. You have my sympathy. You also have my prayers. You *can* find your way.

-- John

I certainly can understand how one could feel, disconnected from the GOA. What a unique situation! At least in my experience, I more often see people leaving the BC church for the Orthodox churches for better spiritual fullfillment. However, I support your decision if your spiritual needs are not being fullfilled by the Orthodox Churches, to our shame.

If the eastern catholic churches in your area are not meeting your needs any better than the Greeks, I don't see a point in leaving the Orthodox Church, unless there is something more. I would agree with the suggestion to look for other Orthodox jurisdictions, especially the OCA. I am a member of an OCA parish and am very happy here. You mentioned the Carpatho-Russians- I can only assume you weren't happy there either. A shame, I've heard good things about them. They should be very similar to the Byzantine Catholic Church since they originally were BCs.

Someone pointed out that the Latin church cannot deny you Communion. It is my understanding of Catholic rules that the opposite is true. I was always told when I was Catholic that, according to the Catholic church Orthodox are allowed to receive in the eastern catholic churches, but not in the latin; and that according to the Orthodox Church, Orthodox Christians are forbidden to receive in Catholic Churches (a rule I find to be... more Orthodox triumphalism than anything substantial and am not opposed to receiving in eastern catholic churches, and possible western, although I have not since I left.) If someone knows the specifics on this I would appreciate clarification on the specific rules.

Please do not assume that since I left the Catholic church for the Orthodox I would discourage you from joining the Catholic Church. I believe you should go where your needs can be met. I am both Pro-Orthodox and Pro-Catholic, even though I have criticisms of both. As a former Catholic, I would be interested to hear the details of why you are dissatisfied with Orthodoxy.

I sympathize with your problem. I know how hard it is to move from once church to another. I initially had a hard time finding an Orthodox parish. Hang in there and trust in the Holy Spirit and you will find a home.

Feel free to email me, nfinzer@gmail.com

NF

Oh, and what is RCIA?

Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults. In the Latin Church this is the ordinary process whereby adults are initiated into the Church. RCIA is marked by various stages (inquiry, catechumenate, conversion, purification) and rites (acceptance, election) culminating in the the reception of the Sacraments of Initiation (Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist) during the Mass of the Easter Vigil. Initiation is followed by the period known as mystagogia during the Paschaltide. This period of mystagogia is ideally a life long process wherby the newly enlightened believer continues to explore the sacred mysteries and participates in the very life of the Holy Trinity.

Thank you Fr. Deacon for the clarification.

Deacon Lance is correct. Why in the world would they make you go to RCIA? That is an insult to you, your background and your intelligence.

It is not meant as an insult. Just as it is not meant to be an insult to all of the baptized Christians who seek Confirmation in the Catholic Church.

The problem is that while those who are validly baptized and seeking entry into the Church should not be required to go through the entire program of RCIA - the vast majority of parishes do not have in place any other program for catechesis for those seeking to join the Catholic Church.

It is a lack of preparedness on the part of many Latin Rite parishes (and a failing which seems to be widespread in the U.S.) to be sure, but it is not meant to insult anyone.

Carole,

I don't believe that it is meant as an insult either, although from what I've heard about some of these programs they are insulting by default for everyone.

When I converted from being a United Methodist pastor of many years to the BC Church and having given administered the closest I knew to communion thousands of times I waited through the catechesis and Chrismation before I received communion. I was happy to do it even though it seemed very strange to me. I had found the "pearl of great price". Why would I risk losing it?

CDL

Why are people freaking out about his being placed in RCIA?

No, it is not required; it may not even be ideal. But I would suggest taking it as an opportunity to (re)learn some things about the Holy Catholic Church's Latin Rite. I would view this as a blessing, not a curse.

Welcome back to the Catholic Church! With a good Italian name like that, this is where you belong!

Seriously though, perhaps you can be the one to bring some knowledge of the Christian East into your Latin Rite church. What a wonderful opportunity, and one you would be deprived of if you attend an Eastern Catholic or Orthodox church.

Logos Teen