www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West BENEDICTUS XVI AND MANUEL II PALAIOLOGOS

The lecture of the Pope

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/b...e_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html

The reactions to Pope's lecture

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/14/world/europe/15papalcnd.html

It's quite amazing that the Muslims complain about the Pope's comments while MANY of their leaders have slandered Jews and Christians for many decades without any regrets. Their comments are far more ruthless and uncharitable and yet they pick on Benedict's small words about Islam.

CRAZY!

It is a fact that in the Quran (Koran) however one wants to spell it...states that Jews and Christians MUST BE KILLED if they do not convert to Islam.

So, Benedict is correct...he was paraphrasing the content of the Koran.

Actually, he was speaking in apologetics.

I don't get these Muslims. I never will and nor will ANYONE in their right minds understand it.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

The New York Times article did not display.

Hmmmmm.....

Many Years to Pope Benedict. The rest speaks for itself, particularly the absurd comments of the Turk quoted.

Andrew

Pope's speech stirs Muslim anger

The Pope's comments came on a visit to Germany
Muslim religious leaders have accused Pope Benedict XVI of quoting anti-Islamic remarks during a speech at a German university this week.
Questioning the concept of holy war, he quoted a 14th-Century Christian emperor who said Muhammad had brought the world only "evil and inhuman" things.

A senior Pakistani Islamic scholar, Javed Ahmed Gamdi, said jihad was not about spreading Islam with the sword.

Turkey's top religious official asked for an apology for the "hostile" words.

In Indian-administered Kashmir, police seized copies of newspapers which reported the Pope's comments to prevent any tension.

A Vatican spokesman, Father Frederico Lombardi, said he did not believe the Pope's comments were meant as a harsh criticism of Islam.

'Abhorrent'

In his speech at Regensburg University, the German-born pontiff explored the historical and philosophical differences between Islam and Christianity and the relationship between violence and faith.

Stressing that they were not his own words, he quoted Emperor Manual II Paleologos of Byzantine, the Orthodox Christian empire which had its capital in what is now the Turkish city of Istanbul.

The emperors words were, he said: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

Benedict said "I quote" twice to stress the words were not his and added that violence was "incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul".

The Pope is due to visit Turkey in November and the Turkish response was swift and strong, the BBC's Sarah Rainsford reports from Istanbul.

Religious leader Ali Bardakoglu said the Pope's comments represented what he called an "abhorrent, hostile and prejudiced point of view".

Whilst Muslims might express their criticism of Islam and of Christianity, he argued, they would never defame the Holythe Holy Bible or Jesus Christ.

He said he hoped the Pope's speech did not reflect "hatred in his heart" against Islam.

Many Turks see Benedict as a Turkophobe and commentators call his words just before the holy month of Ramadan "ill-timed and ill-conceived", our correspondent adds.

www.bbcnews.com [bbcnews.com]

In reference to the above article which I posted from the BBC news site, the only comment I would have is that if the Holy Father's words about the nature of violence in Islamic jihad are so 'abhorent' then why are more Muslim leaders not publicly crying out against 'jihad'? Why are we hearing more about the Pope's comments from the Muslim world than we hear about terrorist (jihad) acts of violence?!?

The only notable figure I personally ever remember speaking against terrorism and jihad as being a hijacking of their religion was the King of Jordan and his beautiful wife. They truly and sincerely seemed dismayed by this face of their religion being represented to the world. Their interview and their rational and heartfelt sentiments made me feel much more sympathetic to our Muslim brothers and sisters.

Indeed, although their step-mother's conversion is disturbing to me as a Christian, I remember that after reading Queen Noor's book of a few years ago, I felt that her understanding and practice of Islam was a more beautiful and meaningful one than I have ever seen or felt in any form of media since.

How can it be that a religion which such a large population of the world follows NOT have more public relations against 'jihad'....

How is it that they were the *only* ones I personally remember speaking positively about their religion and condemning terrorist activities in the name of their religion?

As I said before, 'Hmmmmm'.

Just some thoughts.

In Christ our true Lord,
Alice

I think those are very good thoughts. I admire Pope Benedict because he stands for something. He is not a politically correct syncretist who is out to please everyone. Instead, he speaks what he believes.

I would think that a normal reaction to the Pope's speech would have been more defensive, considering the violence of terrorism that exists. Where the Pope was trying through reason to show that violence could not be of 'God', and to start a true dialogue between the two faiths, it only aroused 'passions'. Passions of course are anti reason, thus there can be no reasoning in Islam. There is only submission to an eratic and all dominant god. A god who oppresses all that follow him.

Can any good come from that? :rolleyes:

Zenovia

How sad Pope John Paul II must be. He tried so hard to reach out to the Muslims...yet it was all in vain. Times have changed so drastically. What might have appeared to be possible then, has now become virtually impossible.

What a pity that the old heresy of Islam cannot be overcome.

Zenovia

After reading the Pope's lecture, I see he's really just saying that we need to discuss and debate Theology again. He started by talking about the Greek emperor and the Persian to illustrate debate between the religions.

We are no longer allowed to debate religions. We can't discuss our difference and why we see them without being seen as anti- whatever.

So when the Pope rationally discusses the West being ready to discuss and debate religion again, the Muslims immediately take offense instead of seeing it for the open door that it is.

The Islamic reaction is beyond me. Did they even read the speech? They're ascribing the 15th century opinions of Michael II Paleologos to Pope Benedict, simply because he QUOTED him!

I'm feeling rather sensitive to Islam these days, as I teach ESL to a whole lot of saudis. Recently, I've been trying to explain to a student, who wants to write an academic paper about the Danish mohammed cartoons, that it is inappropriate, at a US university, to write "Pease be upon him" every time he write the word "mohammed" (which is common practice in Arabic... as in "the prophet Mohommed, peace be upon him,....)

maybe I'm venting....

Dear Marc,

I read on Al Jazeera that the Saudi government will be sending 15,000 fully paid students, their brightest and their best, to American universities. I consider this quite a good thing. These are formative years, and it will give them an understanding of Western culture...the good parts of it, and the bad. :rolleyes:

I recall that for a while, universities were being established in Muslim nations in order to keep Western ideas from infiltrating and taking over their youth. I guess the Saudi's are becoming quite frightened over their extremists and realize the day will come when the world won't need it's oil. They will have to do something in order to establish industries within their country.

Let's hope it goes well. I know my grandson had a very wealthy Saudi friend at college, and they are lovely people. Too bad they can't dialogue on religion. Well, maybe that too will change.

Zenovia

I'm basically convinced the Islamic world is not capable of dealing with criticism from others or of fostering critical introspection of itself.

Andrew

I think what is also fueling the fire is the false notion taught in High School history that the Christians were the ones responsible for the Crusades. As if we were the ones who were taking land that didn't belong to us. the "historians" forget that all the land that the Muslim Horde conquered in 100 years was all part of the Empire of Justinian and Constantine before him.

So, our secular world feels sorry for what their Christian ancestors did (but actually didn't) do to the "poor, peaceful" Muslims.

But those of us who know, know better. We know what really happened, especially in 1453.