www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Eastern Apostolic Nuncio's???

The postion of Apostolic Nuncio or Delegate (I will explain the difference later) is one which requires formal diplomatic training. One is simply not appointed out of the blue. He is a real ambassador of the Vatican City State with diplomatic standing. He is also the Pope's representative to that nations's Church.

Priests are invited to join the Diplomatic Service by the Cardinal-Secretary of State upon recommendation by their bishop. The candidate is expected to have a doctorate in one of the sacred sciences. He must also be able to speak Italian, Latin and four other languages or learn them. If the candiadte is accepted he spends two years in the Pontifical Ecclesiastical Academy. Upon graduation they are posted to a nunciature, delegation, or the Secretariat of State for Vatican City. They start as an attache and move through the ranks of secretary, auditor, counselor, and finally nuncio/delegate if chosen. Secretaries and auditors are named Chaplains of his Holiness, while counselors are named Prelates of Honor. Nuncios/Delegates are always Archbishops. Most of these men are Italian but not exclusively. I believe there is one Maronite nuncio.

The difference between nuncios and delegates is that nuncios are both ambassadors to the state they are in and representatives of the Pope to the Church of that country. Delegates do not serve the former role and have no diplomatic standing. Nuncios are often the dean of the diplomatic corps of a nation but not always. Before 1993 those who were not deans were called pro-nuncios but since 93 this designation has been abolished.

There duties in relation to the Church of a nation are clearly defined.

1.They coordinate the nominations of bishops.
2. Aid and counsel the local bishops.
3. Serve as liason bewteen national Episcopal Conferences and the Vatican.
4. Make Papal announcements.
5. Advise Religous Orders of Pontifical rank.

They have no actual jurisdiction over any bishop but liturgically are given precedence as the Pope's personal representative.

I would also add Churches of Patriarchal/Major Archepiscopal rank send a a bishop to Rome to serve as Patriarchal/Major Archepiscopal Procurator for the Synod of that Church.

In Christ,
Lance

[ 05-29-2002: Message edited by: Lance ]

[ 05-29-2002: Message edited by: Lance ]

I'm late to this thread, but let me first say Lance is correct in his post. The members of the Dip Corps are moved around to get experince. It would not be possible to have a person of the dominate rite in a given nation serve only in those limited number of nations.

I do recall a Romanian Nuncio some time ago (during Communism). I recall the Romanain Orthodox Church was having a fit that a Romanian Greek catholic Archbishop was being ordained and the Vatican trying to explain that this was not uniatism but needed because he was to serve as a Nuncio.

Axios

[ 05-29-2002: Message edited by: Axios ]

Lance - thanks for that enlightening information. Since we have our own canon law (CCEO) I guess I don't completely understand the role of the Pro-Nuncio in Ukraine as it relates to the UGCC except to be an official state representative of the Vatican. With regards to your point #1 regarding the appointment of bishops as coordinated by the Pro-Nuncio, we generally appoint our bishops in Ukraine from the Synod within Ukraine.

I can see a canonical representitve as necessary for the Latin Catholics, but in the UGCC we have provisions for canonical due process involving our patriarchal/major archepsicopal hierarchy. I noticed in the Ukrainian Weekly I recently received when Patriarch Lubomyr named the new exarch for Donetsk-Kharkiv (Stephan Menko) that the Pro-Nuncio was present for the proclamation, but the proclamation actually came from Patriarch Lubomyr. It would seem that his role for us as the UGCC is primarily diplomatic and not canonical.

Thanks for the info Lance. And Axios too! I guess there is nothing that should prevent an Eastern Catholic from becoming a Nuncio in any given country.

But it seems that his role, in nomination of bishops, counsel to episcopal conferences, and proclaim papal announcements would refer more to the Latin Church. I guess a good question to ask is how much influence does he have in the UGCC?

I have heard that Patriarch Lybomyr was elected by a slim majority and that the Vatican favored him, becasue they expected him to be named MAB and the Pope named him a cardinal. So, who really elected him? Was the Nuncio invovled? Does he get invovled with the wroking of the UGCC?

Also if he Represents the Church in that country, then he should definately be an Eastern Catholic Nuncio, after all the dominant Catholic Church that the nuncio would represent in Ukraine is not the Latin Church.

But then again, it seems that such a office is a papal excess that could potentially cause more problems in Ukraine and other Eastern nations than
aid the Church. but then again he is a papal representative . . .

But such a person could easily be and there have been Eastern Catholics, or better put not Latin Catholic.

Oh! this is a very confusing subject!

ALity

Confusing is right! Anyone got their canonical-strength Excederin on them?

Diak,

Yes a nuncio's role with a patriarchal/major archepiscopal Church is more limited as the Synod of those Churches selects the bishops.

I was thinking more of my own Metropolia, in which the nuncio plays a role in bishop selection by forwarding the terna, gathering information, interviewing.

In Christ,
Lance

Ality,

The nuncio does not represent the Church of the country in which his mission is rather he represents the Vatican City State to that nation and the Pope to that country's Church. One could claim that becasue of this he should be a Latin. There is reciprocation, however, because the patriarch appoints a patriarchal procurator who represents him at the Vatican.

In Christ,
Lance

In the recent past, at least, he also installs our bishops in their sees. It will be interesting to see who installs Fr. John Kudrick on July 10 as eparch of Parma after his episcopal consecration.

Peace,
This is my first post. A little personal background - I am 55 years old, Latin rite, with a deep respect for the various Eastern Churches since my teen years. I have been interested in church history since then, and more specifically in the episcopate - apostolic succession, episcopal ordinations, etc. I have had several works (1 book, the rest journal articles) published over the years and I edit an annual journal, in French, Revue des Ordinations Episcopales, which chronicles episcopal ordinations world wide.

In regard to apostolic nuncios, there are presently three who are Syro-Malabars and two who are Maronites. The Maronite nuncios serve in Greece and Turkey, while the Syro-Malabar nuncios are accredited to several African governments (2 of them) and one is Nuncio to Honduras.

In a related area, the Syro-Malabar Church has supplied many bishops for Latin-rite dioceses in India.

If I can be of assistance with information in my area of studies, please do not hesitate to ask.

Peace,

Charles

Dear Charles,

Thank you very much for your post. I did not know that any Eastern Catholics were serving as Nuncio's.

Have you also studied the "process" whereby bishops are chosen? How much has this been made similar, and how much does this vary from one episcopal conference to another, from one country to another?

Elias

Dear Friends,

What a fascinating discussion about all this "Nunciense..."

The Vatican is a true State, recognized as such by the world and it is entitled to have its ambassadors to different nations, just as different nations have theirs at the Vatican.

The role (and you did get it right, Ality!) of the Nuncio can and should be a diplomatic one only.

There is what politicans call a problem with "optics" whenever a Nuncio is standing beside a Patriarch/Major Archbishop, in purple buttons and biretta, when the latter makes an announcement or takes an initiative.

It looks like Rome is controlling every step an Eastern Church takes in what should be its own routine, governed by its own Patriarch.

The Eastern Catholic Patriarch himself should be the Pope's representative in his own nation-state.

There is no need for another level of bureaucracy on top of him.

The fact that Vatican diplomats must learn Latin, Italian etc. etc., well, most of our Patriarchs know those languages and have a wide education.

And what would happen if other smaller Particular Churches in those countries, such as the Latin Church of Ukraine, would have the Eastern Catholic Patriarch as their direct Nuncio?

Eastern Catholics in other countries look to RC hierarchs as their overseers already. What's good for the goose . . .

When it comes to the Eastern Churches where Rome isn't exactly flavour of the month, Rome must learn to adapt a little better to the style and mentality of the home religious culture.

Alex

ALity:

Now that order has come out of this "nunciense", you might want to consider, after your seminary training and eventual priestly ordination, entering the diplomatic service of the Vatican!

You would be the first Ukrainian Catholic Apostolic Nuncio, and a fine Nuncio at that!


AmdG

[ 05-30-2002: Message edited by: Amado Guerrero ]

Dear Amado,

As long as they don't make him wear those purple (ugh!) buttons and monsignorial style outfit.

And if he has to spend time learning Latin and Italian, he's better off, I think, practicing his Ukrainian and UkrEnglish.

Those latter languages will come in handy for him in his future priestly life.

Alex

Dear Alex:

I am color blind.

At any rate, ALity has to start with the Archbishop's purple as a prelude to the Cardinal red.

Who knows, he might wear eventually the Papal white!

AmdG

[ 05-31-2002: Message edited by: Amado Guerrero ]

Dear Amado,

That's assuming Ality doesn't become a married Eastern Catholic priest.

What a dilemma it would be for him if he were to become a married priest, and the rules changed so that he could become Pope!!

In such an event, and because he was married, would that mean he could never wear white?

Alex